HELP! Please, private pond laws

[punk-a-doodle]

So...many bones though! And so darn pretty. X) The fishery/hatchery idea is a great one. Hopefully they are more responsive!

 

[NYboy]

I don't know where you live , but in NY pet shops carry Channel catfish. I know they are also listed on ebay, but would wait for warm weather to ship.

 

[WingingIt]

Call a local feed store. Most of the 'real' feed stores can tell you what time of year the fish truck comes into town and how to order from them. Here and when we lived in TX they came twice a year and you could order ahead or you could just show up and hope they had some extras left and pay cash for them.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Thanks for the help guys! A local hatchery advised me to call DNR, but they just routed me to DWR where, of course, there was no answer. Going to try to go to the actual DNR office and see if I can't get someone to talk to me as a coworker said they used to work at the DWR and, "good luck getting anyone there to talk to you".

Winginit, by a 'real feed store' do you mean IFA, or specifically a non-chain and rural store? I'll make the drive if I have to. X)

 

[itsy]

60 gallons isn't enough to hold koi fish, let alone full grown catfish or lb crappie. Are you sure it's 60 gallons and not 600 gallons? I have a 75 gallon tank in my living room.....which isn't even the size recommended for one Oscar fish.

p.s... I tried writing you back but your box is full.

 

[they'reHISchickens]

FWIW, in the early 60s my dad put in a pond in a swampy part of the pasture. He was VERY careful to purchase bluegills and bass from a hatchery. He said you could get them from the state ( PA) but then you were required to allow public fishing in the pond. He didn't want the public on his land for fishing. They were 'his' fish.
Also in the neighborhood, someone put in a very nice water feature in their front yard. Township officials said it was a hazard and made them put a fence around it to protect the public. Now is ugly fenced water feature.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Itsy, yeah, aquaponics has totally different stocking rates than say, a fish pond or pet tank. You actually want them in a certain fairly packed density, which differs for the different systems. The crappie/bluegill may not make it, but the cats can actually grow in even smaller systems. They start off at fingerlings, we're only going to let them grow to a pound, so no full grown catfish! They'd eat us out of house and home. XD
Oops, it should be clear now.


HIS, ugh, how frustrating! Haha, so every dentist can have a hideous water feature out front with no barriers, but a water feature on their private property is not allowed.... XD

 

[itsy]

Do you have a link or somewhere on the web where I can read more about this? I was considering doing something here on a very small scale.

If that's the case...do you have to start with established plants to be able to handle that amount of Nitrates? Or...are you growing baby plants along with baby fish? Do you cycle the system at all first with anything and then add the plants? I'm just wondering what minimizes damage to fish while growing the crop to the levels necessary to handle their water waste.....

Very interesting indeed. There's another member on here who farms her own fish....can't remember her name. Lives out west and has a fairly large aquaponic operation......

 

[annageckos]

60 gallons is really small. How deep is it? I would worry about it over heating if you have hot summers and freezing in the winters. If you have freezing winters I think it is recommended to have it at least three feet deep. Also, it is easier to take care of a larger amount of water then a smaller one. Also catfish make a lot of mess and unless you have a really large filter you are going to be having issues with ammonia.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Hey Itsy, put together some links for you to peruse. Anna, answers to your questions are spread out in here too.

Right now, we are in cramped urban quarters. We are starting off with a small system of the simplest (in my opinion) design to just start introducing ourselves to the process of having to kill animals we raise and finding out the very basics of what works and what doesn't. We are doing a flood and drain system using a pump and timer. If we decide to expand in aquaponics with our next move (planning on 5-8 acres with the eventual goal of having a large area of multi-purpose land...but we need to start small since this is all new to us), we will be looking at more complex and much larger solar powered systems. Bell siphons or loop siphons are another easy to put together flood and drain system, but the timed pump just sounds more straight forward to us. Probably the most commonly raised fish for close quarter systems are tilapia. They are one of the fastest growing and hardiest species out of the more commonly used fish. I chose not to start with them purely for taste reasons. Bit too bland for me. Trout can raised, but in large systems, often with current and temp control, such as large chillers. Someone did raise 10 trout and 3 catfish in a 50 gal tank...but I'm not pushing my luck on that one. XD Bluegill (hybrids grow faster generally), channel cats, and some bass are probably the next popular fish behind tilapia for small systems.

Please excuse me if any of this is review. Aquaponics came from aquaculture. Growers were looking for ways to reduce the large amounts of fish waste. It combines hydroponics (gardening without soil, relies on nutrient rich water) with aquaculture, and uses the fish waste to feed the plants and the plants and natural bacteria to filter the water for the fish. Hydroponics allows for more concentrated produce growth and better yield than traditional gardening, and you generally can raise more produce with aquaponics than you can hydroponics. Plus, you cut out the need for mined nutrients, relying instead on the fish. There are several different systems used in aquaponics, with raft systems being the kind used by large commercial ventures, and being the most studied and documented method. Even with a larger system, I will not be pursuing many commercial protocols, such as feeding fish commercial diets, and will instead be live feeding, which is important for the black crappie, as they don't adjust well to commercial feed. We are lucky to live in a state where you can easily and legally harvest and keep several prey species. There are many problems emerging with commercial fish feed, such as heavy metal contamination and overfishing issues. Prey species we are looking at include self-cloning marbled crayfish, brine shrimp (we can harvest 'sea monkeys' locally...pretty awesome), red worms, veggie scraps for the catfish, small triop like freshwater crustaceans, and red worms. These will be raised indoors down in our basement. Red worms will be raised with our system regardless, as a method that is becoming more well known is keeping them in your grow beds to help break down solid fish waste. For flood and drain systems, grow beds should generally be 12 inches deep, with 1-2 inches kept dry at the top to prevent unwanted algae growth due to sun exposure, and giving the bed enough depth for the solids to break down safely at the bottom without harming the plants. Black soldier flies are another popular food source in aquaponic systems.

A popular aquaculture system is raising about 40 catfish in a 55 gallon barrel. http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/raising-catfish-in-barrel/
For aquaponics, most people go much less dense on the cats, but may pack in fish like tilapia or bluegill:
http://www.cityfarmer.info/2011/12/...hand-at-fish-farming-in-baltimore/#more-17210
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/barrelponics/message/16310 (barrelponic systems typically use a 52-55 gal tank size)
You will get a lot of varied suggested water to fish and grow bed to water ratios, especially for the different systems. I'm starting with an end goal of growing fish to about 1/2-1 pound each, and am allowing 1 pound of fish per 5 gallons. Some do 1 inch of fish per gallon, some do 1 pound of fish per ten gallons, some push it to 1 pound of fish per gallon. Some do a 1:1 ration of grow bed to tank water, some do 2:1, some 1:2, some use different methods of calculating the ratio.

http://www.squidoo.com/AquaponicsKits (edible fish range starts at about 35 gal for this system)
http://www.theaquaponicstore.com/AquaBundance-SpaceSaver-60-Gallon-Fish-Tank-p/cmfgr002.htm
Are two small scale systems. The Aquabundance system uses the 1 pound of fish per 5 gal max rule.
Some people have had success with 25 gal tanks, but I would be putting such a small system in my basement under grow lights for year-round growth in that case. As it stands, I will either harvest the fish each winter, have an overwintering tank in my basement for a few individuals, or use some test fish to see how they handle the winter. I'm not investing in any heat sources at this point other than insulation. Since I used a corner tub, I have space between the tub and the frame edges to pack in insulation, helping to keep the temps more stable in such a small system. Tanks should not be made of glass both due to high temp fluctuations, and also because of unwanted algae growth. My tub will have a lid, as many systems do, to limit the amount of direct sunlight the tank receives.

The system I am using does mean my tank water level will go up and down as the system rotates. I will be using a system of 15 minutes of the pump on, and 45 minutes with it off. This means I need a pump with a gallons per minute rating of at least 4 times the amount of my tank size (factoring in head height) to properly cycle the water in my system. A chift-pist system eliminates these fluctuating water levels. Tempted to build one, but I'm determined to start simple.

Aeration is key to any system. I have found Whisper air pumps (the larger gal capacity ones with dual outlets) to be a highly rated pump for an affordable price. I use one for a humidifying function in a home made quail egg incubator I still need to try out. During the test runs, it has been quiet, powerful, and reliable. Some fish supply stores online sell food grade diffuser hosing at 1 dollar per foot.

Some use small amounts of aquarium salt for fish health:
http://www.aquaponiclynx.com/salt-for-fish-health
Some keep a separate tank with aquarium salt added and either keep sick fish in there for a while, or periodically rotate/dip their fish through the tank.

A lesser known problem with DIY aquaponic systems are problems with insufficient iron, potassium, and calcium levels in a closed system. These are cheap and natural ways to fix these issues (you can buy supplements, but some of them will cost you a lot of money):
http://diyaquaponics.com/journal/archives/222

As for adding fish, most start with the system running empty, add fish, then add plants when the fish are established. Some buy fingerlings of all one size at once and grow them with the plants, replacing each year. Some buy varying sizes, and harvest fish and veggies/fruit in proportion to each other. Some keep year round systems, but they *typically* use separate breeding tanks. Not always though. There are a lot of different methods, but I personally will be getting fingerlings and will probably replace them annually.

Here are some great starting places:
http://www.backyardaquaponics.com/forum/
http://aquaponicscommunity.com/forum
http://www.aquaponics.net.au/forum/
http://diyaquaponics.com/forum/portal.php

I've checked out some books, but so far have found more information and more detailed information on the Net.

The absolutely MOST important rule to remember is that every tiny component of your system absolutely has to be food grade and potable water safe!!

Hope this helps.