I am positive it is not true. Sorry.
You are correct! It isn't just extra calcium in the layer feed. It's also too low a protein level in every formulation I've ever seen.
Hens laying their first egg!
- Thread starter Shaun89174
- Start date
You are correct! It isn't just extra calcium in the layer feed. It's also too low a protein level in every formulation I've ever seen.
SulkyBantam
···ʞɔǝꓒ ʎɹǝʌƎ ɥʇᴉM ɹǝʇɹoɥS ɓuᴉʇʇǝꓨ sI ʞɐǝꓭ ʎW
DobieLover, I don't think corn is at all bad for them, not mixed corn which is all sorts of grain anyway.
I would not give it as main food (though i know some people who do, and have healthy happy chickens) but as a supplement it is high in energy.
Mine love it!
I would not give it as main food (though i know some people who do, and have healthy happy chickens) but as a supplement it is high in energy.
Mine love it!
SulkyBantam
···ʞɔǝꓒ ʎɹǝʌƎ ɥʇᴉM ɹǝʇɹoɥS ɓuᴉʇʇǝꓨ sI ʞɐǝꓭ ʎW
Sorry, don't want to argue.
Ours have a lot of space so get protein from plants + insects. Layers is great for our needs and those of most people I know but I appreciate everyone has their own methods.
Let's leave it at that!
It didn't write corn was bad for them. It is only bad in excess. Feeding it as a treat can quickly lead to excess.
Corn offer little in nutritional value other than just calories and only offers an average of 7.5% protein which is less than 40% of ideal. It will therefore dilute total protein intake and can cause an excess of calories which leads to fat layers. Fat layers will never live as long as a healthy weight layer.
Of course your birds love it. It's like throwing out a handful of candy to them.
Just for fun, get a bag of chick starter and throw and handful of that out. The reaction is the same but only then you will be throwing out a handful of a complete feed with a good protein content.
SulkyBantam
···ʞɔǝꓒ ʎɹǝʌƎ ɥʇᴉM ɹǝʇɹoɥS ɓuᴉʇʇǝꓨ sI ʞɐǝꓭ ʎW
Ok, but chick starter is not great for my layers.
Like I said, ours get a lot from being semi-free range so the food is not as necessary as it is to others. And corn is just a treat for them.
Like I said, ours get a lot from being semi-free range so the food is not as necessary as it is to others. And corn is just a treat for them.
Starter, and the higher protein all flock formulations, are fine for layers,
as long as you provide some calcium(Oyster Shell is best) in a separate feeder.
Lots of keepers feed this way.
Good feed is always important, free ranging does not provide all the vitamins/minerals/amino acids that a good chicken ration provides.
We have 1 black tail 3 goldline and 3 cream legbar girls. All around 19 23 weeks of age
I'm not familiar with two of those. From online searches it appears that the Goldline are based on the commercial egg-laying hybrids. The Blacktail may also be but I'm not as sure. The commercial egg-laying hybrids tend to have smaller bodies and lay a lot of large eggs. The commercial operations manage them so they can control when they start to lay. That's mainly by managing the light. Since they know when they will start to lay they know how to feed them. We don't manage them the same way so we can get different results. Still, they tend to start laying pretty early. The Legbar are not commercial hens but still pretty much react the same way but maybe not to that extreme. Once they start laying you should be very happy with all of them.
There are different factors that play into when they start. Light is very important. Diet can have some effect but another huge factor is that each is an individual. When they start laying is very much up to the individual. The bottom line is that they are going to lay when they lay.
As far north as you are (thanks for including your location) your days are pretty short and your nights pretty long. Nights are still getting longer. Before chickens were domesticated they developed a pattern of laying eggs and raising chicks in the good weather spring and summer, stop laying and molt to replace worn out feathers in the fall, and waiting until the good days of spring to start laying again. The main signal of when to start the molt and start laying was whether the days were getting longer or shorter. Some of that instinct has remained but yours are all highly domesticated. They should go through that stop laying in the fall and molt but they are much more likely to start laying when their bodies are ready.
You are talking about young pullets. For what it is worth I've had pullets start laying as young as 16 weeks. I've had some not lay an egg until they were 9 months. Most start about the age of yours or just a bit later. Most of mine start in late summer while the days are getting shorter but the weather is still pretty good. I've had some start laying the first week of December when the days are about as short as they get but still slightly getting shorter. You have some things working for you and some things working against you. There is no telling when yours will start.
So what can you do, other than be patient, which is what I do. If you safely can, adding extra light down there might kick start them. Trick them into thinking that the days are getting longer, not shorter. As you can probably tell some people have pretty strong opinions that their way is the only right way. Some people may insist that you have to add light in the morning. Others say they add extra light at night. Since sunrise and sunset both change every day some people turn the light on in the morning at a set time and off at night on a set time. To the shock of many, all three ways can work. I suggest you go with whichever way is most convenient to you if you try this. The chickens can adjust. I suggest a timer to control that.
What light intensity do you need. A suggestion is that if you can read a newspaper in the coop it is enough. I can't give a bulb wattage, that will depend on the size and finish of the coop. We are all different.
What length of light do you need? You can get some really strong opinions on that too. Commercial operations tend to go with 16 hours of light year around. A lot of that is tied to how they manage and feed them. There are different factors involved in this, it's not just length of daylight. My pullets and hens have no problems laying very well in winter with 10 hours of daylight. Chickens do need some dark downtime. If they don't get it behavior problems can develop and certain egg laying problems can develop. I do not add light to my chickens. If I did I'd stop the days from getting shorter for a week, then add about 10 to 15 minutes a day once a week for a month to convince them the days are getting longer. Then I'd stop increasing the length of the daylight. If you stop the light in the spring before the natural daylight matches how much you are providing they may think days are getting shorter and molt then. So don't add too much light.
On the amount of protein question, I have my opinions on that too. It's not the amount of protein in one bite that is important. It's how many grams of protein they eat in an entire day. Even that is averaged over several days. An extra slug of protein in one day won't mess them up. If all they eat is commercial feed you can control that. If yours forage for much of their food you do not have that tight of control. If you provide high or low protein treats that counts. The commercial feed contains all the essential nutrients they need. The general rule of thumb is that you need to keep the treats to no more than 10% of their daily diet so they get a nice balanced diet of all nutrients. So how do you know what 10% is? Another rule of thumb. If they can clean it up in 10 to 15 minutes you are OK. This is for all nutrients, not just protein. You don't have to be that precise, just in the ball park is good enough.
The commercial operations do not provide treats, they tightly control how much each hen eats in a day. Each hen in a hen house with 5000 hens in it. That's part of that management I mentioned a long time ago. For the commercial hybrids, the commercial operators have determined a diet of about 16% protein is ideal. A healthy flock is the most productive flock. That diet keeps them healthy and provides all they need for egg laying. The commercial hens, which I believe at least some of your are, have been bred to be very good at converting what they eat to eggs. Their bodies are small so they don't need to use that much of what they eat to maintain it. So more goes to eggs. If they get a high protein diet the eggs get bigger. With their smaller bodies, consistently laying larger eggs can lead to medical problems, like vent prolapse, becoming egg-bound, or internal laying. These hens are bred to be laying machines. Extra protein can lead to extra yolks being released. This can mean more double-yolkers or a hen laying two eggs in one day. Hens tend to make a certain amount of shell material each day. These extra eggs or extra large eggs may be pretty thin-shelled. Two eggs in the shell gland at the same time can cause marks and deformities on the eggs. Larger dual purpose hens that have not been bred to be that good at converting food to eggs so they can handle larger amounts of protein. That's not a big deal for them.
The commercial layers have a reputation of having mire medical problems than our dual purpose hens. I agree with that. They are bred to be finely tuned egg laying machines. As such they can have problems. I told you I had my opinions. In my opinion shoving as much protein as you can down their throats make it worse.
For what it is worth the commercial operations, using lights, tend to start their pullets laying around 22 to 23 weeks of age. By then the pullets' bodies have matured a bit more so they are more ready to handle the stress of laying. The eggs tend to be a bit larger which are worth more when they sell them. They tend to avoid a lot of the weird eggs pullets just starting to lay often produce. I do not consider it a bad thing that yours are little later than they could be.
I don't want to get into the calcium as this post is way too ling already, but I will. Studies have shown that growing chicks can be harmed by too much calcium such as the amounts in layer. Studies have shown that a mature rooster that eats Layer can possibly, maybe, sometimes be harmed by that extra calcium. Those are the only studies I'm aware of on calcium. Those studies were paid for by the commercial operations to help the determine how to manage their chickens. People with backyard flocks don't pay for those studies. Again, people can have strong opinions on how much calcium to feed and when. I practically always have growing chicks in my flock so I don't feed Layer. I feed a Grower with oyster shell on the side. That way I don't have to worry about it. It is not important how much calcium is in one bite. It's how many grams they eat in a day, averaged over several days.
Here in the USA if you look at the analysis on the labels of the major brands of feed, the only significant differences are in protein and calcium levels. All the other ingredients are pretty close. I have no problems feeding any of them to my flock, taking calcium and protein levels into account.
I don't mean to scare you as much as I may have. I don't know how much yours forage or how much of what treats you are feeding. I don't think you are in any trouble. To me the key is moderation. Just avoid extremes.
If you've managed to read all this, the answer to your basic question is that they will start laying when they start. That could easily be within the week. Don't be surprised if at least some wait a while. Other than playing with the lights I don't see anything you can do to speed that up. And even if you play with the lights, don't expect immediate results. It takes them a while to prepare their internal plumbing to laying mode. They have to grow ova large enough to make yolks. That can take weeks.
Good luck with it, I really think you will be OK.
I'm not familiar with two of those. From online searches it appears that the Goldline are based on the commercial egg-laying hybrids. The Blacktail may also be but I'm not as sure. The commercial egg-laying hybrids tend to have smaller bodies and lay a lot of large eggs. The commercial operations manage them so they can control when they start to lay. That's mainly by managing the light. Since they know when they will start to lay they know how to feed them. We don't manage them the same way so we can get different results. Still, they tend to start laying pretty early. The Legbar are not commercial hens but still pretty much react the same way but maybe not to that extreme. Once they start laying you should be very happy with all of them.
There are different factors that play into when they start. Light is very important. Diet can have some effect but another huge factor is that each is an individual. When they start laying is very much up to the individual. The bottom line is that they are going to lay when they lay.
As far north as you are (thanks for including your location) your days are pretty short and your nights pretty long. Nights are still getting longer. Before chickens were domesticated they developed a pattern of laying eggs and raising chicks in the good weather spring and summer, stop laying and molt to replace worn out feathers in the fall, and waiting until the good days of spring to start laying again. The main signal of when to start the molt and start laying was whether the days were getting longer or shorter. Some of that instinct has remained but yours are all highly domesticated. They should go through that stop laying in the fall and molt but they are much more likely to start laying when their bodies are ready.
You are talking about young pullets. For what it is worth I've had pullets start laying as young as 16 weeks. I've had some not lay an egg until they were 9 months. Most start about the age of yours or just a bit later. Most of mine start in late summer while the days are getting shorter but the weather is still pretty good. I've had some start laying the first week of December when the days are about as short as they get but still slightly getting shorter. You have some things working for you and some things working against you. There is no telling when yours will start.
So what can you do, other than be patient, which is what I do. If you safely can, adding extra light down there might kick start them. Trick them into thinking that the days are getting longer, not shorter. As you can probably tell some people have pretty strong opinions that their way is the only right way. Some people may insist that you have to add light in the morning. Others say they add extra light at night. Since sunrise and sunset both change every day some people turn the light on in the morning at a set time and off at night on a set time. To the shock of many, all three ways can work. I suggest you go with whichever way is most convenient to you if you try this. The chickens can adjust. I suggest a timer to control that.
What light intensity do you need. A suggestion is that if you can read a newspaper in the coop it is enough. I can't give a bulb wattage, that will depend on the size and finish of the coop. We are all different.
What length of light do you need? You can get some really strong opinions on that too. Commercial operations tend to go with 16 hours of light year around. A lot of that is tied to how they manage and feed them. There are different factors involved in this, it's not just length of daylight. My pullets and hens have no problems laying very well in winter with 10 hours of daylight. Chickens do need some dark downtime. If they don't get it behavior problems can develop and certain egg laying problems can develop. I do not add light to my chickens. If I did I'd stop the days from getting shorter for a week, then add about 10 to 15 minutes a day once a week for a month to convince them the days are getting longer. Then I'd stop increasing the length of the daylight. If you stop the light in the spring before the natural daylight matches how much you are providing they may think days are getting shorter and molt then. So don't add too much light.
On the amount of protein question, I have my opinions on that too. It's not the amount of protein in one bite that is important. It's how many grams of protein they eat in an entire day. Even that is averaged over several days. An extra slug of protein in one day won't mess them up. If all they eat is commercial feed you can control that. If yours forage for much of their food you do not have that tight of control. If you provide high or low protein treats that counts. The commercial feed contains all the essential nutrients they need. The general rule of thumb is that you need to keep the treats to no more than 10% of their daily diet so they get a nice balanced diet of all nutrients. So how do you know what 10% is? Another rule of thumb. If they can clean it up in 10 to 15 minutes you are OK. This is for all nutrients, not just protein. You don't have to be that precise, just in the ball park is good enough.
The commercial operations do not provide treats, they tightly control how much each hen eats in a day. Each hen in a hen house with 5000 hens in it. That's part of that management I mentioned a long time ago. For the commercial hybrids, the commercial operators have determined a diet of about 16% protein is ideal. A healthy flock is the most productive flock. That diet keeps them healthy and provides all they need for egg laying. The commercial hens, which I believe at least some of your are, have been bred to be very good at converting what they eat to eggs. Their bodies are small so they don't need to use that much of what they eat to maintain it. So more goes to eggs. If they get a high protein diet the eggs get bigger. With their smaller bodies, consistently laying larger eggs can lead to medical problems, like vent prolapse, becoming egg-bound, or internal laying. These hens are bred to be laying machines. Extra protein can lead to extra yolks being released. This can mean more double-yolkers or a hen laying two eggs in one day. Hens tend to make a certain amount of shell material each day. These extra eggs or extra large eggs may be pretty thin-shelled. Two eggs in the shell gland at the same time can cause marks and deformities on the eggs. Larger dual purpose hens that have not been bred to be that good at converting food to eggs so they can handle larger amounts of protein. That's not a big deal for them.
The commercial layers have a reputation of having mire medical problems than our dual purpose hens. I agree with that. They are bred to be finely tuned egg laying machines. As such they can have problems. I told you I had my opinions. In my opinion shoving as much protein as you can down their throats make it worse.
For what it is worth the commercial operations, using lights, tend to start their pullets laying around 22 to 23 weeks of age. By then the pullets' bodies have matured a bit more so they are more ready to handle the stress of laying. The eggs tend to be a bit larger which are worth more when they sell them. They tend to avoid a lot of the weird eggs pullets just starting to lay often produce. I do not consider it a bad thing that yours are little later than they could be.
I don't want to get into the calcium as this post is way too ling already, but I will. Studies have shown that growing chicks can be harmed by too much calcium such as the amounts in layer. Studies have shown that a mature rooster that eats Layer can possibly, maybe, sometimes be harmed by that extra calcium. Those are the only studies I'm aware of on calcium. Those studies were paid for by the commercial operations to help the determine how to manage their chickens. People with backyard flocks don't pay for those studies. Again, people can have strong opinions on how much calcium to feed and when. I practically always have growing chicks in my flock so I don't feed Layer. I feed a Grower with oyster shell on the side. That way I don't have to worry about it. It is not important how much calcium is in one bite. It's how many grams they eat in a day, averaged over several days.
Here in the USA if you look at the analysis on the labels of the major brands of feed, the only significant differences are in protein and calcium levels. All the other ingredients are pretty close. I have no problems feeding any of them to my flock, taking calcium and protein levels into account.
I don't mean to scare you as much as I may have. I don't know how much yours forage or how much of what treats you are feeding. I don't think you are in any trouble. To me the key is moderation. Just avoid extremes.
If you've managed to read all this, the answer to your basic question is that they will start laying when they start. That could easily be within the week. Don't be surprised if at least some wait a while. Other than playing with the lights I don't see anything you can do to speed that up. And even if you play with the lights, don't expect immediate results. It takes them a while to prepare their internal plumbing to laying mode. They have to grow ova large enough to make yolks. That can take weeks.
Good luck with it, I really think you will be OK.
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