Here we go again.. More death and I don't know why!

[mitch0275]

Sorry.... Should probably started a new tread on this but could not figure out how to do it.

 

[Beekissed]

Thanks Kathy for the welcome.
Yes those doses should work fine.
But as i said i had major problems with cocci and am still unsure if i have it under control.
Is it so that Corid will only treat 3 of the 9 cocci that affect chickens?
I have singled out one of my sickest hens and am on my 3rd day of amoxicillin treatment! I have wormed with wazine and i am pulling my hair out over this. I am spending 5 or more hours a day picking up poop the coop is impeccably clean.
Here is my set up......
Free range, feed a grower that is lacto bacillious fermented, starting adding 1 cup a day of ground up cat feed (32% protien) to the diet after the fermentation process. A scoop of rooster booster. My girls are all thin as a rail!!!! Breast bone sharp and protruding.
Because i've lost 3 hens i now only have 3 hens that are laying age (no eggs yet) 18 months. And 3 mature roosters. That are very healthy and full breasted.
Could it be so simple as i have too many roosters?

32% protein?????????? Think about that for a minute. A balanced diet is balanced for a reason. Any imbalance, especially an incredible imbalance like feeding twice the amount of recommended protein, is a recipe for organ failure.

All you need to keep chickens healthy is a balanced feed, clean soil, clean water, fresh air, sunshine. That's it. Take away all the supplements~especially the cat food...it's for cats, not for chickens~all the treats, all the medicines~every time you dose a chicken it weakens it even further, rendering its own immune system ineffectual, quit worming them, and quick picking up poop. Their own poop is not going to kill them.

I'm thinking being super clean, giving them a too rich diet, and repeated dosings of whatever meds you have on hand is not working, so you might want to stop all of that. And, yes, you have too many roosters. Even one would be too many for 3 hens and causes extreme stress to them...an overly stressed bird is a bird ripe for illness.

Keep the fermented food, start a deep litter~NOT a deep bedding~system in the coop and run, increase ventilation in the coop...I have a feeling that's probably out of balance as well, get rid or or pen separately the three roosters, and get their bodies and their environment in balance. That's all you need....balance.

 

[mitch0275]

Beekissed thank you for your reply.
I guess i should have been a little clearer in my post.
I live in louisiana, my coop is 12 by 12 feet. Ventilated with a 350 cfm squirrel cage fan on a timer every 30 minutes from dusk till dawn. I use deep litter of pine chips 8". Until this morning i used only fermented feed and free range with some fruit and vegetables thrown in here and there.
My birds were fine up until about 45 days ago When it started raining here and pretty much has not stopped. I lost a beloved laced polish.
Shortly after i started noticing bloody diarrhoea. I then lost a berred rock I did an autopsy on the polish because i froze her just in case i seen other problems. I found cocci so i used corid 20%. I still seen massive weight loss in my birds so i did a wazine worm day before thanksgiving. Still massive weightloss in only my girls. Roosters are fine. Though im seeing lots of mahogany colored very lose (not runny) stool from 2 of them. So 3 days ago i started my worst girl on 150mg of amoxicillin twice daily.
Today i started with the 1 cup of 32% protien mixed in the feed for 18 birds to try to build some weight.
So all of this started before my being super clean and before the dosing of meds. I only dosed them with the corid 3 times because of the cocci which i know for sure was the start of all the problems. Because of it i am seing secondary problems and am at wits end to figure it out.
The wazine was a one time dose and the amoxicillin is being given to 1 bird as a kind of controled study to see what may help. The only other thing i am doing is Rooster Booster which is a vitamin and electrolyte.
So i have proper litter, coop size, ventilation, diet (up until this morning), and the proper meds for the cocci do you have any other advice that may help me?
I can send you photos tomorrow.
Thank you for your time.
P.s. and yes i do know that 32% protien is excesive but am trying to get as much nutriants as possibly in as quick as possible to save lives.

 

[mitch0275]

32% protein??????????   Think about that for a minute.  A balanced diet is balanced for a reason.  Any imbalance, especially an incredible imbalance like feeding twice the amount of recommended protein, is a recipe for organ failure.  

All you need to keep chickens healthy is a balanced feed, clean soil, clean water, fresh air, sunshine.  That's it.  Take away all the supplements~especially the cat food...it's for cats, not for chickens~all the treats, all the medicines~every time you dose a chicken it weakens it even further, rendering its own immune system ineffectual, quit worming them, and quick picking up poop.  Their own poop is not going to kill them.

I'm thinking being super clean, giving them a too rich diet,  and repeated dosings of whatever meds you have on hand is not working, so you might want to stop all of that.  And, yes, you have too many roosters.  Even one would be too many for 3 hens and causes extreme stress to them...an overly stressed bird is a bird ripe for illness. 

Keep the fermented food, start a deep litter~NOT a deep bedding~system in the coop and run, increase ventilation in the coop...I have a feeling that's probably out of balance as well, get rid or or pen separately the three roosters, and get their bodies and their environment in balance.  That's all you need....balance. 

 

[mitch0275]

I meant to tell you that organ failure with the twice as much protien as a balanced was a concern so i contacted my vet who stated that organ failure is only seen when feeding high protien for extended periods due to heavy fat buildup around organs such as liver, heart, gizard and such.

 

[mitch0275]

And isnt cocci passed threw poop of infected birds? Breeding in wet grounds such as the wet grounds im having?
We know that birds build an immunity to cocci but does not mean that they will not have another flare if the conditions are right. They will be lifetime carriers.
Could it be that my birds are not getting a break from the cocci?
You mentioned clean soil. Any suggestions on how to clean my soil?
Besides sun and drought i know no way to clean protazoa from soil other than to use ultraviolet light (sun) and heat.
Im truely contemplating culling my whole flock. I am spending an arm and a leg in feed time and emotions with no results.

 

[mitch0275]

I have more than one hen. I have 14. I only have 3 mature hens left of laying age. The other 11 close to laying age 15 months.
Do i still have to many roosters?
Please know that i am not being condescending. I truely admire and respect your advice.
I am gonna pen my roosters and see if that helps. Im also gonna eliminate one that was a suprise keep.

 

[Beekissed]

Beekissed thank you for your reply.
I guess i should have been a little clearer in my post.
I live in louisiana, my coop is 12 by 12 feet. Ventilated with a 350 cfm squirrel cage fan on a timer every 30 minutes from dusk till dawn. I use deep litter of pine chips 8". Until this morning i used only fermented feed and free range with some fruit and vegetables thrown in here and there.
My birds were fine up until about 45 days ago When it started raining here and pretty much has not stopped. I lost a beloved laced polish.
Shortly after i started noticing bloody diarrhoea. I then lost a berred rock I did an autopsy on the polish because i froze her just in case i seen other problems. I found cocci so i used corid 20%. I still seen massive weight loss in my birds so i did a wazine worm day before thanksgiving. Still massive weightloss in only my girls. Roosters are fine. Though im seeing lots of mahogany colored very lose (not runny) stool from 2 of them. So 3 days ago i started my worst girl on 150mg of amoxicillin twice daily.
Today i started with the 1 cup of 32% protien mixed in the feed for 18 birds to try to build some weight.
So all of this started before my being super clean and before the dosing of meds. I only dosed them with the corid 3 times because of the cocci which i know for sure was the start of all the problems. Because of it i am seing secondary problems and am at wits end to figure it out.
The wazine was a one time dose and the amoxicillin is being given to 1 bird as a kind of controled study to see what may help. The only other thing i am doing is Rooster Booster which is a vitamin and electrolyte.
So i have proper litter, coop size, ventilation, diet (up until this morning), and the proper meds for the cocci do you have any other advice that may help me?
I can send you photos tomorrow.
Thank you for your time.
P.s. and yes i do know that 32% protien is excesive but am trying to get as much nutriants as possibly in as quick as possible to save lives.

Don't know what to tell you at this point....sounds like you have it all under control.

I've never had illness in my flocks, so I have no experience with sickness, just health and I know how to keep them healthy, but don't really have much to offer for chronic or recurring illness. I've never wormed, never given meds, etc., so have no experience with that either.

I'm pretty much into preventative care rather than curative. I hope you find someone who can help you. One thing that may help~but won't help you right now~is switching out deep bedding for a composting deep litter...it can help you grow more beneficial organisms in wet conditions and just may keep the overgrowth of cocci down in their environment.

When you say free range, is it a large area in which they free range or a small one? Is the soil covered by grass or is it mostly barren?

 

[Beekissed]

I have more than one hen. I have 14. I only have 3 mature hens left of laying age. The other 11 close to laying age 15 months.
Do i still have to many roosters?
Please know that i am not being condescending. I truely admire and respect your advice.
I am gonna pen my roosters and see if that helps. Im also gonna eliminate one that was a suprise keep.

Yes. Unless you are using them for breeding purposes and must keep a spare, you only need one for a flock that size to reproduce your flock. If you have three hens that are laying, then they are probably getting a lot of mating from three roosters...that's a lot of mating. It would most likely help if they were penned separately from the flock, especially right now.

 

[mitch0275]

Don't know what to tell you at this point....sounds like you have it all under control.  

I've never had illness in my flocks, so I have no experience with sickness, just health and I know how to keep them healthy, but don't really have much to offer for chronic or recurring illness.   I've never wormed, never given meds, etc., so have no experience with that either. 

I'm pretty much into preventative care rather than curative.  I hope you find someone who can help you.   One thing that may help~but won't help you right now~is switching out deep bedding for a composting deep litter...it can help you grow more beneficial organisms in wet conditions and just may keep the overgrowth of cocci down in their environment. 

When you say free range, is it a large area in which they free range or a small one?  Is the soil covered by grass or is it mostly barren? 

a very large free range area of grass but where they range the most is in a brushy wooded area filled with ground cover of fallen leaves.