Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
Sounds like a good project, Bee. Hope you take it on.

 

[Beekissed]

Sounds like a good project, Bee. Hope you take it on.

I think a project like that would take longer than I would be expected to live. That's a long, long haul to the finish line if everything I'm reading is correct. Just wondering if anyone out there might have already delved into such a project and already laid some good ground work on it. Would be interesting to see what they did and the results of those actions.

WAY beyond my level of anything to do with breeding. That kind of miracle would have to be done by someone with knowledge, skill and lots of time. Lots and lots of time. None of which I currently possess.

 

[3riverschick]

Charcoal For Poultry

Hi Fellowlisters,
Been doing a lot of looking around to see what science has to say about feeding charcoal to chickens. They are hot for it. I like to have at least 2 ( 3 is better) reputable sources for any answer. I am sold on it. While it is true that charcoal ( because it is inert and indigestible) does nothing nutritionally or medicinally for the birds, it does help absorb toxins, create better fertilizer, acts as a laxative, and helps promote better uptake of nutrients in the digestive system. My one problem was the charcoal powder with white fowl. But using the charred corn kernels has 2 advantages. 1. it has a taste to it while hardwood charcoal doesn't have any (and hopefully the birds prefer charcoal with taste).. 2. It is kernel sized and hopefully will not make the dirty black mess that a powder would. Of course I can see needing my Sussex to roost with adding charcoal to their diet. I don't want them nestling down in litter which has charcoal poop on it.
Best, Karen
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Activated carbon can be prepared from a large number of sources by a wide variety of methods.
The Merck Index divides these into four basic forms:
1. Animal charcoal is obtained by charring bones, meat, blood, etc.;
2.Gas black, furnace black, or channel black is 44 obtained by the incomplete combustion of natural gas;
3. Lamp black is obtained by the burning various fats, oils, resins, etc.,
4.Activated charcoal is prepared from wood and vegetables (Budavari, 1996).
(Karen: number 4 is the one we want for the poultry)
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Feeding charcoal improves chicken litter as fertilizer
By Stephanie Schupska, University of Georgia Mar. 24, 2011
http://southeastfarmpress.com/livestock/feeding-charcoal-improves-chicken-litter-fertilizer
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Earthwise Gardening
Earthwise Gardening is a blog about organic gardening and sustainable living brought to
you by the team at organic gardening supply business : Green Harvest.
http://earthwisegardening.com/?p=235
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Happy Tummy Charcoal Review
http://poultrykeeper.com/equipment-reviews/happy-tummy-charcoal http://www.finefettlefeed.com/poultry.asp
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Darkegglayers.com comments on charcoal for poultry
http://www.darkbrownegglayers.com/tag/chickens-eating-charcoal/
"Wood charcoal can very beneficial and an important supplement for your poultry. Charcoal has the capabilities to absorb toxins and is capable of absorbing up to two hundred times its own weight. Extensive research suggests that animals consume it for its medicinal, toxin-binding properties. The charcoal is also a laxative and so then can work twofold and move the impurities it absorbs out of the body. If worms or worm ova are present, it can to some degree help move them out of the body as well. My chickens also from time to time are seen eating the wood ash as well as charcoal. Wood ash is highly soluble in vitamin K, followed by calcium and magnesium. Vitamin K is useful for blood clotting in poultry. Wood ash has a very nice texture to aid in dust bathing and adding it to your chickens dust bath to eat and dust in will give your poultry a double-benefit! Happy Dust Bathing to your Chickens! "
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Practical Home Veterinarian - Poultry ( Originally Published 1912 )
http://www.oldandsold.com/articles11/home-veterinarian-33.shtml
"Charcoal is an excellent aid to digestion and a good blood purifier. It may be fed in a granulated form in hoppers, or it may be powdered and fed in the mash. It will prevent many of the bowel disorders and is a valuable corrective of these troubles. Charcoal will readily absorb gases and impurities. This is one reason why it is such a valuable article of diet for-the poultry. If it is the least bit damp it ought to be placed in a hot oven and thoroughly dried out before feeding."
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Activated Charcoal for Animal Feed Supplement
http://www.charcoalremedies.com/animals/animal_feed 2002

OMRI position paper on the use of Activated Charcoal in Animal Feeds - PDF file http://www.charcoalremedies.com/files/1747766/uploaded/ActivatedCarbon.for.Livestock.pdf

 

[3riverschick]

Karen,

While it maybe exciting I would use caution. I talked to Emily about this recent import and she guesses that they came from an English line originally.
Also the fact they have won an award would make me very hesitant to use them in any breeding program for the next two years. I am speculating
the only good cross that these lines could be crossed with is the Australian lines....

Hi call ducks,
I disagree. We have not even seen these birds yet. Yes, the Aussie
line was larger because size is "the thing" Down Under. However, from
what I have seen, this is not the case in Europe. I am currently delving
the Web looking for pics of Swedish Light Sussex. If they came from an
English line, more power to them. I am a big fan of breeding fowl towards
the Standard of the country of origin. I don't see a problem with that in
Sussex . It's one of the reasons I chose this breed. Basically, I believe
breeding to the APA SOP and the British Standard are the same thing.
The sire of my foundation flock was a pure english Light Sussex and he
was a 3x APA Grand Champion.
Best Regards,
Karen and the pure english Walt Boese strain Light Sussex

 

[call ducks]

Quote: 3 generations for egg production to get set, a few generations of meat selection (and growth rate) while still selecting for egg production. and then Gasp crossing strains/adding new blood every few years to maintain heteros - this really reduces the amount of inbreeding that goes on (some call it linebreeding....). The more chicks you can hatch out the better. It does take knowledge, and maybe a bit more time than breeding for just the phenotype. But it's been done....

 

[Beekissed]

Charcoal For Poultry

Hi Fellowlisters,
Been doing a lot of looking around to see what science has to say about feeding charcoal to chickens. They are hot for it. I like to have at least 2 ( 3 is better) reputable sources for any answer. I am sold on it. While it is true that charcoal ( because it is inert and indigestible) does nothing nutritionally or medicinally for the birds, it does help absorb toxins, create better fertilizer, acts as a laxative, and helps promote better uptake of nutrients in the digestive system. My one problem was the charcoal powder with white fowl. But using the charred corn kernels has 2 advantages. 1. it has a taste to it while hardwood charcoal doesn't have any (and hopefully the birds prefer charcoal with taste).. 2. It is kernel sized and hopefully will not make the dirty black mess that a powder would. Of course I can see needing my Sussex to roost with adding charcoal to their diet. I don't want them nestling down in litter which has charcoal poop on it.
Best, Karen

You know, OTs used to give charred wood to the pigs and other livestock as a dewormer. I've used it for sheep and cows and have noted wild birds dipping(mostly barn swallows) into our fire pit after a night of having a bonfire, so not sure what they are snatching up but it has to be somethingcharred. I've also noted my chickens picking the charred pieces out of wood ashes, so not sure what they get out of it but the animals sure seem to like ingesting it for some reason or other.

 

[call ducks]

Quote: I know you are a believer in the SOP, I was expecting this reply quite honestly

In Aus. they have two types of Light Sussex, a production and a show line. The issue is with these imported birds - they are not bred correctly to have any benefit to existing stock. I can only assume that these birds that have been imported are closely related. The SOP for LS is almost universal between the APA and the UK, so it's no shocker there that the parent stock was winning shows.

But than again - with Light Sussex it all should come back to utilitarian traits - these are what made the Sussex popular, these are why farmers raised thousands of sussex and not orp's, or dorkings in the early day's of the poultry industry.

Basically I am saying not to expect much and not get your hopes up. With out having a bird in the hand there is little that can be said, but they will most likely not add anything to the long term future of a breeding program do to the "breeding" practices of a certain "farm"....

 

[Beekissed]

3 generations for egg production to get set, a few generations of meat selection (and growth rate) while still selecting for egg production. and then Gasp crossing strains/adding new blood every few years to maintain heteros - this really reduces the amount of inbreeding that goes on (some call it linebreeding....). The more chicks you can hatch out the better. It does take knowledge, and maybe a bit more time than breeding for just the phenotype. But it's been done....

That's all? Shoot! Could do that standing on m' head.....

Gives me a new found respect for you dedicated breeders, that's for sure. Sure wish I had known about y'all years and years ago.

 

[3riverschick]

3 generations for egg production to get set, a few generations of meat selection (and growth rate) while still selecting for egg production. and then Gasp crossing strains/adding new blood every few years to maintain heteros - this really reduces the amount of inbreeding that goes on (some call it linebreeding....). The more chicks you can hatch out the better. It does take knowledge, and maybe a bit more time than breeding for just the phenotype. But it's been done....

Call ducks,
You and I are like oil and water. We are operating under 2 different basic breeding parameters. Thus we will never agree completely
with each other. That doesn't mean we don't have advice which will help each other. However, such advice will be always be strained
thru the demands of each of our breeding philosophies and for that reason, often it will be found wanting by either of us. Fortunately,
we can both remain friends and continue to share because there is a meeting place in the middle for those breeding for utility
and those breeding for fancy. I wish C. J. Davies' book, "The Theory and Practice of Breeding To Type" was available free online.
He describes this meeting place so eloquently. It changed the way I thought about animal breeding.
Here's to breeding better Sussex, regardless of how one approaches it.
Best Regards,
Karen

 

[call ducks]

Quote: Ok "on paper" it sounds like a lot but it is not really. I find it a lot easier than measuring the angle of a cocks tail. Seriously how many of you have tried that... Bah humbg.