Zanna
Songster
I have 3 and I have put them all to work 
The other two are leghorn NH crosses from a hidden nest last year.
The other two are leghorn NH crosses from a hidden nest last year.
Last edited:
Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II
- Thread starter juststruttin
- Start date
I have had a couple pretenders along the way, but none that ever made a solid commitment. I imagine that the incident rate would go up in hens. Also, considering that it is a heritable trait and can be passed down from the male side, it would not take much to make a difference. I have seen that some have had a female or two go broody and make good mothers.
Ironically I had hoped to discover a good setter for a long time with no luck. Then I started with a Mediterranean breed, and suddenly I had some good setters. Funny how things work out. You do not want broodies, and have more than you want. I did want some, and could not have bought one.
Ironically I had hoped to discover a good setter for a long time with no luck. Then I started with a Mediterranean breed, and suddenly I had some good setters. Funny how things work out. You do not want broodies, and have more than you want. I did want some, and could not have bought one.
Whoops, I see what I was asking.Hi All! I have been lurking on both this thread and it's predecessor, and although I have tried to read every post I do have to admit to skipping a couple (hundred) pages in the middle of this one.... it updates WAY too fast to keep up when you're several hundred pages behind ;-) I have loved all the info I have gained, and love the discussions that have happened! Thanks for the posts.
I'm posting this question here because I figured it would be the best place to find someone to point me in the right direction. I am interested in getting involved in heritage birds- I have some (obviously non-heritage) that were from Tractor Supply, and although my hens are sweet and great layers the rooster is not sweet at all. I know that mean roos are a product of poor genetics and mass breeding and want to get away from aiding that industry.
I'm pretty open to several different breeds (Buckeye, Australorp, Orpington, Sussex, Wyandotte, New Hampshire), and although the list is long, it's more because I'm looking for a breeder relatively close than anything else. On the Livestock Conservancy page there are many breeders listed, but either they don't list the breeds I'm interested in or give me a different list by email than the page shows. Most are also so far away it's not even worth looking. I am located in the tri-state area of Ohio/PA/WV.
I'm sorry to ask what I know is a repeat question, and I would be more than happy to PM with suggestions, or even move this to a different thread
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
Holly
Last edited:
Holly, you can narrow that list of breeds down. You live in a good area to round up some decent birds. Decide what you are most interested in.
Also, distance is not a big deal these days.
Also, distance is not a big deal these days.
- May 19, 2009
- 8,453
- 3,381
- 512
Discussing the original "organic" and the modern "refined" Sussex fowl
Considering the Sussex as it arose from the Dorking. There was a period of transition there as in any breed arising from its fountainhead. Was the Sussex refined from its genetic source? Of course. That is what breed making is all about. Taking the source and refining it. Making it better, refining it so it can best meet the needs for which it was created/arose. I think George is also thinking of the uncultured Sussex, the bird which met the human's needs in its natural from. A somehow more "organic" bird than we have now. I have seen this type of conversation before from folk who have an uneducated view that somehow the "original" creature is better than the more refined creature of today. That's just not true.
I saw it in collies in the middle '90's when a lady decided popularize that the "old" collie needed to be preserved/resurrected. She popularized a movement for the "Old Scotch" collie. Has been at it nearly 2 decades now. Is that collie more organic than the modern collie? If organic means unrefined, then, "Yes". If organic means somehow more superior because of the organic nature, then, " No". The old organic collie did its job in spite of itself. It used its hallmark "wise" personality to do its job in spite of cow hocks, splay feet, rotten teeth, poor eye sight , weak structure, etc. It was the intellect of the collie that caught the fancy's attention after which the dog itself was improved in structure and health. So the modern collie is less organic (uncultured) but overall a better dog than before. Are all strains equal? Of course not. Most all strains show the "drag of the breed" (footnote#1) somewhere. But overall, the breed is improved and the dogs do a better job because the legendary intellect is housed in a better body with better health. Yes, of course there are some gentrifications along the way like the tip of the ears. Done merely for fancy with no real practical use. It is much more important the ears be mobile on the skull. Ok, so what does all this collie history mean to us in the poultry world.
Simply that "original, organic" doesn't mean a better functioning creature. As in canines, the parts of the bird all effect how the other parts work. We can be sentimental and "miss" the "old" days, somehow thinking the birds then were "better" than now. But they weren't. There are reasons why breeders worked to improve close feathering (better laying); leg thickness and width of placement( to support meaty carcass); lower station ( meaty carcass); longer keel( carry meat on the carcass) ; fine skin ( didn't hold fat which restricted skin elasticity); Points of the head ( denoted laying ability); wider feathers( better insulation so less energy spent heating bird, more energy to eggs); color( a fancy- in different colors for different reasons, either show or perhaps the feather market); depth and breath of carcass ( to achieve balance between the meat and the egg bird). So, in the end, we can be sentimental but the breed is in a better place now. We have taken the organic bird and helped it to be a better version of itself. We can learn about breed building from the classic writers who helped build the breed. We can use the knowledge they used to perfect it to continue that course today. Further refining the breed, tweaking its structure and abilities. Carrying forward the perfection and improving the "wants" in the breed. This is why learning the history and origins of a breed are important. So we can understand the nuances of a breed. The "whys" behind how it functions and what causes it to function that way. Once we know this, we "understand" the breed and can select for proper breed type. When we can select for proper breed type and understand "why" we do, then we can become Master Breeders with enough time and effort.
Or another shortcut is to just copycat a Master Breeder, cookie cutting copies of his/her masterwork while not understanding why. The cookie cutter breeder is common today because our busy lifestyles often limit the time we have for study. Or the desire we have for it when glory beckons thru just imitating another's work. The difference is, unless the Master Breeder shares their knowledge, the cookie cutter breeder only imitates, never innovates. And when the Master Breeder retires or passes away, the cookie cutter breeder is left without guidance because they never learned to think for themselves.
Best Regards,
Karen
Footnote #1: Internet quotes, facts from canine breeding sites: "the drag of the breed": the tendency for all animals to breed back toward mediocrity. "This is the "secret to line breeding" - the only way to successfully fight off the drag of the breed."
Footnote#2: Discussion of the "whys" behind the breed hallmarks in the 2010 APA SOP:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/732985/csu-chicken-state-university-large-fowl-sop/1090 post #1097 of 2184
Footnote#3: Katherine Plummer paintings of Light Sussex variety for the 2010 APA SOP http://www.katherineplumer.com/closeups/poultry/SOP/LLightSussex.html
Considering the Sussex as it arose from the Dorking. There was a period of transition there as in any breed arising from its fountainhead. Was the Sussex refined from its genetic source? Of course. That is what breed making is all about. Taking the source and refining it. Making it better, refining it so it can best meet the needs for which it was created/arose. I think George is also thinking of the uncultured Sussex, the bird which met the human's needs in its natural from. A somehow more "organic" bird than we have now. I have seen this type of conversation before from folk who have an uneducated view that somehow the "original" creature is better than the more refined creature of today. That's just not true.
I saw it in collies in the middle '90's when a lady decided popularize that the "old" collie needed to be preserved/resurrected. She popularized a movement for the "Old Scotch" collie. Has been at it nearly 2 decades now. Is that collie more organic than the modern collie? If organic means unrefined, then, "Yes". If organic means somehow more superior because of the organic nature, then, " No". The old organic collie did its job in spite of itself. It used its hallmark "wise" personality to do its job in spite of cow hocks, splay feet, rotten teeth, poor eye sight , weak structure, etc. It was the intellect of the collie that caught the fancy's attention after which the dog itself was improved in structure and health. So the modern collie is less organic (uncultured) but overall a better dog than before. Are all strains equal? Of course not. Most all strains show the "drag of the breed" (footnote#1) somewhere. But overall, the breed is improved and the dogs do a better job because the legendary intellect is housed in a better body with better health. Yes, of course there are some gentrifications along the way like the tip of the ears. Done merely for fancy with no real practical use. It is much more important the ears be mobile on the skull. Ok, so what does all this collie history mean to us in the poultry world.
Simply that "original, organic" doesn't mean a better functioning creature. As in canines, the parts of the bird all effect how the other parts work. We can be sentimental and "miss" the "old" days, somehow thinking the birds then were "better" than now. But they weren't. There are reasons why breeders worked to improve close feathering (better laying); leg thickness and width of placement( to support meaty carcass); lower station ( meaty carcass); longer keel( carry meat on the carcass) ; fine skin ( didn't hold fat which restricted skin elasticity); Points of the head ( denoted laying ability); wider feathers( better insulation so less energy spent heating bird, more energy to eggs); color( a fancy- in different colors for different reasons, either show or perhaps the feather market); depth and breath of carcass ( to achieve balance between the meat and the egg bird). So, in the end, we can be sentimental but the breed is in a better place now. We have taken the organic bird and helped it to be a better version of itself. We can learn about breed building from the classic writers who helped build the breed. We can use the knowledge they used to perfect it to continue that course today. Further refining the breed, tweaking its structure and abilities. Carrying forward the perfection and improving the "wants" in the breed. This is why learning the history and origins of a breed are important. So we can understand the nuances of a breed. The "whys" behind how it functions and what causes it to function that way. Once we know this, we "understand" the breed and can select for proper breed type. When we can select for proper breed type and understand "why" we do, then we can become Master Breeders with enough time and effort.
Or another shortcut is to just copycat a Master Breeder, cookie cutting copies of his/her masterwork while not understanding why. The cookie cutter breeder is common today because our busy lifestyles often limit the time we have for study. Or the desire we have for it when glory beckons thru just imitating another's work. The difference is, unless the Master Breeder shares their knowledge, the cookie cutter breeder only imitates, never innovates. And when the Master Breeder retires or passes away, the cookie cutter breeder is left without guidance because they never learned to think for themselves.
Best Regards,
Karen
Footnote #1: Internet quotes, facts from canine breeding sites: "the drag of the breed": the tendency for all animals to breed back toward mediocrity. "This is the "secret to line breeding" - the only way to successfully fight off the drag of the breed."
Footnote#2: Discussion of the "whys" behind the breed hallmarks in the 2010 APA SOP:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/732985/csu-chicken-state-university-large-fowl-sop/1090 post #1097 of 2184
Footnote#3: Katherine Plummer paintings of Light Sussex variety for the 2010 APA SOP http://www.katherineplumer.com/closeups/poultry/SOP/LLightSussex.html
Last edited:
Just read between the lines.
OK..it's late..read it twice...
You can't always discount what has been learned by those who came before us. By the way, this quote app is not very forgiving!
Quote:
Interesting, I'll have to grab my farmers almanac and see what it says are the best egg setting dates. It says April 13-15 - ayup, the moon looked pretty full this morning. For May 11, 12, 20-22 - Hmm, the 11th and 12th are a few days before the next full moon, and the 20-22 is the Last Quarter Moon. I don't know why April is showing to set furing the full moon, and May is off a bit. May have to do with temperature and the phase of the moon.
Interesting, I'll have to grab my farmers almanac and see what it says are the best egg setting dates. It says April 13-15 - ayup, the moon looked pretty full this morning. For May 11, 12, 20-22 - Hmm, the 11th and 12th are a few days before the next full moon, and the 20-22 is the Last Quarter Moon. I don't know why April is showing to set furing the full moon, and May is off a bit. May have to do with temperature and the phase of the moon.
Last edited:
My list was long and I ordered from Mr. Urch in Minnesota.Hi All! I have been lurking on both this thread and it's predecessor, and although I have tried to read every post I do have to admit to skipping a couple (hundred) pages in the middle of this one.... it updates WAY too fast to keep up when you're several hundred pages behind ;-) I have loved all the info I have gained, and love the discussions that have happened! Thanks for the posts.
I'm posting this question here because I figured it would be the best place to find someone to point me in the right direction. I am interested in getting involved in heritage birds- I have some (obviously non-heritage) that were from Tractor Supply, and although my hens are sweet and great layers the rooster is not sweet at all. I know that mean roos are a product of poor genetics and mass breeding and want to get away from aiding that industry.
I'm pretty open to several different breeds (Buckeye, Australorp, Orpington, Sussex, Wyandotte, New Hampshire), and although the list is long, it's more because I'm looking for a breeder relatively close than anything else. On the Livestock Conservancy page there are many breeders listed, but either they don't list the breeds I'm interested in or give me a different list by email than the page shows. Most are also so far away it's not even worth looking. I am located in the tri-state area of Ohio/PA/WV.
I'm sorry to ask what I know is a repeat question, and I would be more than happy to PM with suggestions, or even move this to a different thread
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
Holly
you can also post the question on each breeds thread here on BYC. The Australorp thread is very active and lots of Buckeye breeders in Ohio
Join the club for your first choice and get the breeders list from them.
Missouri has a list of poultry breeders, I found it with a google search. Pick a poultry breeder that only has one breed and you might get better birds than on that has fortyeleven (Mr. Urch is the exception).
"Poultry Press" has a list of judges, you can contact a judge that lives near you and ask her/him.
Put your part of the world in your profile, you might get a quicker response.
Welcome to BYC
John
I don't know why, but I have been dealing with an excess # of broody hens this year. 19 individual birds so far. I have 8 wire bottomed cages that are suspended above the ground. Today I washed the 7 chickens I am taking to the Pima County Fair show this Friday, so I needed those to keep the birds clean. 4 broodies are now sharing one of the wire cages...
Of my 8 original NH hens, hatched spring of 2012, none went broody last year. One has been twice this year, and twice for 2 of the younger ones. Driving me nuts
I would like to build some 2 foot by 3 foot cages for broodys and mount them in the main coop above the floor so not to take up floor space. I would like the mounting to be temporary and easy to put up and take down. I'm not much of a carpenter nor do I have a lot of common sense sometimes. Would you mind sharing how you did this. I have assumed that suspending the cage such that it moves/swings would not be agreeable to the hen. Thank you for your help.
Mark
Last edited:
Similar threads
New posts New threads Active threads
-
Latest threads
-
-
-
-
-
Are my California White and Barred Rock roos?
- Started by bharris0426
- Replies: 13
-
-
Threads with more replies in the last 15 days
-
There is a time and place for shenanigans. (edit: THIS is that time and place)- Started by azurbanclucker
- Replies: 443
-
Caged Bird and Parrot Thread!!!!- Started by ShrekDawg
- Replies: 316
-
This is what a balanced layer feed with no treats delivers- Started by Perris
- Replies: 122
-
-
Ended Official BYC Caption Contest 05-24-24 Pic by LhickenChicken- Started by BYC Project Manager
- Replies: 80
-
