Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[dretd]

Quote:
Quite a lot of studies are done by researchers as part of their Masters or PhD. They do not apply to the Feds for funding although they may get some funding from the University or organization they are studying at.

Federal Funding for grants have become more scarce and to get funding there are specific calls an Governmental Agency will put out, like DOE, NIH or DOD. By far the biggest player is the DOD. In many of the grants, if you are lucky enough to get a Phase I grant, you must put forth not only a tech report that sums up your study and shows that you have a proof of concept, but you must complete a Commercialization Plan to demonstrate that you have the ability to move forward with developing a product from the basic research you have done.

I didn;t want to fork over the $28 to access this above mentioned study itself, but looked at its references: One for example, 'Marination Method and Honey Level Affect Physical and Sensory Characteristics of Roasted Chicken' by I. B. Hashim†, K. H. McWatters, Y.-C. Hung was a Master's Thesis write up and the person thanked several entities for their contributions (ie, this is how the study was funded): We thank Gold Kist, Inc. (Atlanta, GA) for providing the chicken; A. C. Legg, Inc. (Birmingham, AL) for providing the marinades; the National Honey Board for funding the project... In looking up the National Honey Board, it says that it is under USDA oversight and that the Board’s work is funded by an assessment of one cent per pound on domestic and imported honey, and is designed to lift the awareness and use of honey by consumers, the foodservice industry and food manufacturers.

SO I guess you and I did pay for some of this study...but only if you buy honey and it was a really tiny amount of money. Not the Feds in the way you are thinking.

 

[Beekissed]

Those all sound like good benefits. Can you point me towards a tutorial please?

That would be tough....we all just are learning as we go and the information for it all has been gleaned from many, many places and has not been compiled in a short form~at least, not with any good accuracy and correct information~on any blog or site that I have seen. In other words, no one has written the book on it...the fermented feed threads found her on BYC have the most reliable information but you have to do a lot of sorting. For a shorter one to peruse, you can find one in the feed and water section of the forum and it has less variations of info.

Beee--- was this hen still laying??????

Dairy cows stay much thinner than beef cows mainly due ti the production demand on their bodies for resources. So that's what led me to think this girls was not laying anymore and hasn't been for a while.


ANd leads me to ask what they are eating while free ranging-- what kids of plants are they eating, and do you have lots of bugs??

Is she had still been laying, I wouldn't have killed her!

She hadn't laid for awhile..she was almost 6 yrs old. The forage here is par excellent...I've overseeded the lawn and garden with white dutch clover that they simply LOVE and then they have native grasses. WDC has 25% crude protein alone. Then they also have the woods and 3 acres of meadow to forage upon with abundant insect life to be found, not to mention some animal proteins from snakes, lizards and whatever else that moves. I've seen a chicken eat a snake 10 in. long in just a couple of gulps.

I also do deep litter in the coop where they regularly raid the lower layers for any beetles they can find...beetles have some of the highest proteins to be found in the insect buffet, with darkling beetles as the primary bug that lives on the feces of chickens...and their larvae are well known as mealworms. Some grasshoppers go as high as 60% protein.

It would be interesting to see a list of "starters" for fermented feed ... with people's opinions about each

I've read about:

Nothing, just let the air provide the good stuff

"Mother" purchased at a specialty store

Unpasturized Apple Cider Vinegar (with the mother)

Yogurt, the real stuff with live cultures

Kefir

...

I'm sure I'm missing a bunch ...

It doesn't matter that much...they all end up with the same variety of yeasts in the end if air can reach the fluid or the mix, collectively known as lactobacter and acetobacter. So it matters very little what one starts with. At that point, it's a no brainer...just start with the air. Takes all the extra fussiness out of it and you get the same end product.

The
The list is a great idea -- it does seem like there are more ways to ferment than there are chicken feathers after a molt. Nice to be able to have a bunch in one spot se we can see what best suits each person's chickens and their set-up.

See above. In the end, it's all the same end product, so it matters little how you start or proceed a fermentation. The only true variation is the actual grains and additives being fermented.

 

[thedragonlady]

This begs the question: wry tail is heritable, yes? And why would it spring up out of the blue in someone's flock? Saw some photos earlier this year of birds that someone had shipped out as either chicks or eggs to two different people, and the photos were eye-opening.

What would cause that to spontaneously pop out I wonder?

What many people mistake for a wry tail is often really a crooked back, certainly in Silkies , or other short backed breeds .I've been seeing it in a few short backed Orps too. Thankfully not from my line, as I know the dangers of too short a back , and breed for a longer back more suitable to a layer, coupled with the deep keel suitable to a roaster.If you want to differentiate between wry tail and crooked back,; pick up the bird,and see if the hips are level. No? Crooked back. Yes, and the tail is still off to the side = Wry tail.

 

[Arielle]

Ok, I am back here. We have some chickens, and ducks, now. 3 marans, 1 cuckoo maran/rir mix, an a easter egger rooster! I still would like a couple heritage ladies to add to our flock. I am curious, are Dorkings a heritage breed? I live in Western MA, cold winters and hot summers! We have a coop and a good size enclosed pen. What do you suggest? thanks

See Joseph at Yellow House Farm for very good dorkings. ANd there are several buckeye breeders in MA. Are you going to the Northeastern Congress?? I t is in Springfield-- in January I think. PM me for buckeyes info.

 

[catdaddyfro]

The
The list is a great idea -- it does seem like there are more ways to ferment than there are chicken feathers after a molt. Nice to be able to have a bunch in one spot se we can see what best suits each person's chickens and their set-up.

See above. In the end, it's all the same end product, so it matters little how you start or proceed a fermentation. The only true variation is the actual grains and additives being fermented.

<Me here

When I start up a new batch of fermented whole grains (I dont put the layer or grower in it as I like to measure that sorta stuff) that's me though not a given or written law. I use a good bit of the remaining juice(ale/lager beer LOL) and leave some of the grains too. Then when I add the new grains I also use wheat middlings(shorts) along with them this seems to give everything a kickstart I've found. (once again this is my way an not written in stone though) Now that its cooler outside where my barrels are (I don't have it mobil or able to do it inside not gonna happen where I live) LOL now its gonna just take longer for the fermenting action to do its deal but still all in all just the soaked(softer) grains are more easily digested which is a big figure in the process anyhow.

Jeff

 

[bnjrob]

Ok this is just weird. Who pays for these studies ?

Get those old rock tumblers out of the attic!
Reducing Variation in Marinade Retained by Broiler Breasts
J. L. HEATH and S. L. OWENS
http://ps.fass.org/content/70/1/160.abstract
--------------------------

Let me guess - someone had to use up some grant money or lose it?

 

[Lacy Blues]

Australorps are prone to fatty liver disease. It has to do with their high egg laying ability. I found out about this due to a couple of mine dieing and going in for Necropsy. The condition makes them add fat--it does not indicate over feeding.

Still, that hen must have made great soup!

Where would I find a list that tells the breeds that are prone to fatty liver disease? I wonder if mine are as many of the girls I have butchered have been fat beyond belief and they don't have food waiting to be eaten at all hours. I feed morning and night. I don't overfeed at all. By the same token, many of the boys I've butchered and who receive the same diet, have hardly any fat at all... which to me doesn't seem fair and is very much like with humans! Anyway, I'd like to see a link to that list if someone has it?

Based on an early comment from Walt wrt how to measure tail angle, I thought this would qualify as squirrel tail... Going from the horizontal, it's not quite 90 degrees, but based off the angle of the back it looks like it's just past 90 degrees. Or maybe squirrel tail is measured from the horizontal regardless of back angle... This subject still confuses me!

The SOP says that the tail angle is measured from the horizontal, not the angle of the back.

You certainly want to assess tail when birds are relaxed All birds tighten things up a bit understress. The best scenario is to invest in some show pens to be able to compare your stock. Tail angle, as capay kim pointed out, is pretty fixable if you have birds that offer a lowering of the tail.


True wry tail is grotesque in that it totally deforms the type of the bird. It's a DQ at any age. Sometimes you'll have specimens with lazy tails, which is not upt o standard snuff, but it's not a DQ per se.

I guess the one bird I culled for being wry tailed was really lazy tailed and boy did it make me mad to watch him. He was so very beautiful. He was the first black andalusian I'd ever bred that was worth keeping. When his tail became fully furnished, he started letting it fall to one side.... so, not worth keeping after all!

What many people mistake for a wry tail is often really a crooked back, certainly in Silkies , or other short backed breeds .I've been seeing it in a few short backed Orps too. Thankfully not from my line, as I know the dangers of too short a back , and breed for a longer back more suitable to a layer, coupled with the deep keel suitable to a roaster.If you want to differentiate between wry tail and crooked back,; pick up the bird,and see if the hips are level. No? Crooked back. Yes, and the tail is still off to the side = Wry tail.

I've wondered how to tell if a back was crooked. One hen I had, had a crooked back and you could see it when you looked down on her from above. She carried one of her shoulders higher than the other.

On a male I butchered recently, I couldn't tell at all that he had a crooked back. I only found it once he was sans-feathers.

See above. In the end, it's all the same end product, so it matters little how you start or proceed a fermentation. The only true variation is the actual grains and additives being fermented.

<Me here

When I start up a new batch of fermented whole grains (I dont put the layer or grower in it as I like to measure that sorta stuff) that's me though not a given or written law. I use a good bit of the remaining juice(ale/lager beer LOL) and leave some of the grains too. Then when I add the new grains I also use wheat middlings(shorts) along with them this seems to give everything a kickstart I've found. (once again this is my way an not written in stone though) Now that its cooler outside where my barrels are (I don't have it mobil or able to do it inside not gonna happen where I live) LOL now its gonna just take longer for the fermenting action to do its deal but still all in all just the soaked(softer) grains are more easily digested which is a big figure in the process anyhow.

Jeff

Do these have any other names as I have often wondered what they are. They are in all the old recipes. Maybe you could add a picture over on the fermented feed thread?

 

[BLT79]

See Joseph at Yellow House Farm for very good dorkings. ANd there are several buckeye breeders in MA. Are you going to the Northeastern Congress?? I t is in Springfield-- in January I think. PM me for buckeyes info.

I actually found some folks with buckeye's and buckeye connections. I plan on attending the Northeastern Congress and I have spread the word! I will look up Yellow House Farm now! thank you!

 

[catdaddyfro]

Do these have any other names as I have often wondered what they are. They are in all the old recipes. Maybe you could add a picture over on the fermented feed thread?

Lacy I don't know of any other names, we always just called them "shorts" and they were for making "hogslop" (fermented feed for the hogs) they'd eat it get drunk lay down and sleep and get fat(er) LOL alcohol turns into sugar in the bloodstream therefore=beerbellies on us men. I really don't know what all it ensues in the poultry worlds innards, other than the pro-bioitcs(gut flora and fauna) factors. I know my chickens look better than ever now that I have incorporated their grain rationing into fermented grains. I figure they just get more out of them instead of it being partially digested is the main parts.

Jeff

They are 15% protein rated on the sack something in them is there, as whole wheat is rated at around 8% like most hard whole grains.

gjensen probly has more input on them than I he has done extensive studies of feeds(esp of yesteryears) and grasses an such maybe he'll see this and chime in on it a bit.

 

[Beekissed]

What many people mistake for a wry tail is often really a crooked back, certainly in Silkies , or other short backed breeds .I've been seeing it in a few short backed Orps too. Thankfully not from my line, as I know the dangers of too short a back , and breed for a longer back more suitable to a layer, coupled with the deep keel suitable to a roaster.If you want to differentiate between wry tail and crooked back,; pick up the bird,and see if the hips are level. No? Crooked back. Yes, and the tail is still off to the side = Wry tail.

Got a pic of a processed bird that had a wry tail...shows the crooked pelvis...she was a Speckled Sussex and had possibly the worst conformation I've ever seen on a bird. Hatchery genetics, of course.