Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[hellbender]

I've got a question for you all...do heritage line birds often need artificial lighting in order to produce eggs in the winter? If so, is anyone breeding against that trait?

Hi Bee. Did you try lights on the Heritage breed you got from Kathy a while back? Did any of them survive or make the cut?

 

[3riverschick]

I've got a question for you all...do heritage line birds often need artificial lighting in order to produce eggs in the winter? If so, is anyone breeding against that trait?

The only reason mine are under lights 24/7 in the winter is to
prevent cold injury to combs. I need those combs healthy
for the start of breeding season the end of January.
I use a 60 watt incandescent in each of the coops ,
4'd x 6'w x 4'h ; 4x3x4 coop; and 2 1/2 x 3 x 3 .
Yes, I use a semi-intensive colony system.
Best,
Karen

 

[Texasmja]

What breed are you keeping and how long have you been keeping them? Is that a trait that comes naturally for them or is it something for which you have bred specifically?

I have mostly LF Wyandottes. I have birds here from 5 lines depending on the variety. They all came from northern breeders.

Egg laying has not been a problem for me in any of my birds. One thing I am breeding for is male fertility, I need males that will breed in over 100 degree temps that we have here for months straight. I do not want males who can only be fertile when the temp is "..."

 

[gjensen]

A lot of it is due to space. Simply put, to really improve breeds you need numbers. It's a bit of conventional wisdom that for every 10 you hatch you'll get 1 worth using (although some say less than that), but if we take that as a minimum, and say we want to have at least four keepers (based on having one pair and a backup for each bird). That means at an absolute minimum you need to hatch at least 40 birds and raise them to an age where you can feel confident about making selections. That's an absolute minimum, yet I see "breeders" talking about hatching much less. And that's per breed and per variety. Want to do two breeds? Now you're at absolute minimum of 80. Six breeds? Now your minimum is 240. When dealing with those low of numbers progress will be slow, but steady, but you can see how fast it adds up.

Yes time and knowledge are factors too. It takes time to really know the ins and outs of a breed, and for a newbie especially to develop their eye and all that. But one thing that doesn't care about your knowledge or experience is amount of space, and economics of feed bills. I think that is truly the inhibitor barring most for being able to work successfully with multiple breeds or varieties.

Agreed. Given my circumstances, I am limited. It is best that I keep my focus narrow.

Now, if I was in good health (I am not), my resources were unlimited, and I had the space . . . .Add time in, and I could do as many as I chose.

It is important to know your limitations, and my limitations are growing. I hope to be able to continue to make progress with my project. I hope to get back to my first love at some point.

Everyone is different to. A lot of variables.

It is human nature to get carried away. The catch is knowing what you can do well. For many that is one. There are examples of some doing very well with many though.

So I still agree with the theory knowing there are exceptions.

When I was in better shape I did better with more than one project than I did with one (at work). Eventually my employers figured that out. Instead of a $10m project here, I would often get a $5m here and there and everywhere. I performed better with the brain always moving, and the hustle kept me motivated. I liked it better like that. Mostly it was better to put one man over one project. I would get mine in multiples. My resources were vast though. They gave me whatever I wanted and when I wanted it. Personally, my story is much different.

 

[gjensen]

I've got a question for you all...do heritage line birds often need artificial lighting in order to produce eggs in the winter? If so, is anyone breeding against that trait?

My Catalanas do well without supplemental lighting. There is a little slow down, but they still lay better or as well than many lines do in the spring. This is a trait that I stumbled upon by chance, but I am happy to have it. No more lights here.
I have so much to work on with them currently, that I hope to keep this trait in the process.

 

[Beekissed]

I'm thinking the closer one lives to the equator, the less the chickens will require supplemental lighting to produce? That could be a factor?

 

[ronott1]

I'm thinking the closer one lives to the equator, the less the chickens will require supplemental lighting to produce? That could be a factor?

Yes, that is true. Chickens at the Equator lay all year long except for Molting and Brooding. In Northern Canada, the will need supplemental light 5 or 6 months a year to lay.

 

[Beekissed]

What I'm looking for is information on the effect of breeding those birds in northern climes that do still produce~even if not at peak performance~during winter months without supplemental lighting and if that is something that can be encouraged as a genetic trait for a specific breed/line and if anyone is doing that currently, what their results have been and do they consider their breeding for that trait successful.

 

[gjensen]

Yes, that could be a factor. But . . . there is not a lot of difference in length of day between you and I. There is some, so it would matter.

I think other things contribute to it to. We do not get as cold as you. My birds lay through the cold weather, but not quite as well immediately following a cold snap. I attribute much of that to the rapid change, but I suspect it would still matter. I would not expect many birds to lay at top form during the hottest days of summer . . .

I think that little things where a house is sighted matters. You can take two nearly identical flocks and get different results, even if they are managed precisely the same. Just the location of the house matters. Whether it gets more sun, summer or winter etc.

Still genetics plays the largest role I think. Raised side by side with others, these Cats saw a far less drop off in productivity and fertility over their counterparts.

These Cats came from Peru originally. The person I got them from joked that they are still in the Southern Hemisphere, LOL.

This is not only my birds. I know three others that have kept Catalanas for a length of time, but all of them remarked without provocation that they were exceptional layers and very good winter layers.

 

[gjensen]

I was typing as you posted.

All you would have to do is hatch from birds without supplemental lighting. I imagine that with time, you would have been hatching from birds that were laying without the lights. The catch is whether or not the male is fertile enough at the time. You would be selecting for two traits at the same time.

if I was to set out to do this, I would be planning on trying different males, young and old.