Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[gjensen]

Bee select for a few main points. Point of lay other than the real late laying strains. Egg size. Late molting and returning to lay soon after a faster molt. Just the two points other than the egg size can take a 160 egg a year bird to 200. Along the way you will pick up on a few females that excel above the others. Mate them and test mate sons from them.

You will not get the 300 numbers unless you control conditions and lighting. That takes into the commercial realm. Something I was getting away from.

It is certainly possible and the information is out there. It just takes the want to and the persistence.

You can breed for the finer features and the other traits to. It just takes hatching twice as many or more. It would be no small effort. That is why I think along those three main points, and cull the slackers. No matter how good they look. They can set you back.

 

[Beekissed]

That's good info! Thank you! No, I wouldn't want to rely on artificial means to produce a producer....I'd want a true blue egg queen that can put food in the nest without help. If the hatcheries can tweak that feature, so can I....just don't want to lose anything else while doing it.

I wonder what Bob's WRs laying performances were? Anyone raising the BAs and can give some idea on their laying stats?

 

[Zanna]

Digital Sportsman 1502 question as I know some of you have/use this and it is new to me. Just set 24 NH eggs and with the humidity tray that came with the unit full of water, humidity is running 40 - 45%. I always ran it a little higher for setting in my Hovabators and had very successful hatches from my own eggs. Do any of you use the humidity pads to raise it for the setting period? Also, the water in the tray completely evaporates every 3 days. I have the humidity bucket, do you use it or just open the door and keep refilling the tray? I will be hatching in the hovabators so no concerns with humidity then, I've got that down

 

[BGMatt]

That's good info!  Thank you!  No, I wouldn't want to rely on artificial means to produce a producer....I'd want a true blue egg queen that can put food in the nest without help.  If the hatcheries can tweak that feature, so can I....just don't want to lose anything else while doing it. 

I wonder what Bob's WRs laying performances were?  Anyone raising the BAs and can give some idea on their laying stats? 

You will not get the egg laying performances you are talking about without aritificial lighting, from heritage stock or commercial stock, period. You can help them by having birds maturing at different times of year, but average per bird will not get there without lighting, it simply won't happen, even commercial strains and factories use artificial lighting.

Bob's line of White Rocks was closely related to his buddy Jim Volk's White Rocks. I had that strain for a short while in the mid to late 90's. I'd expect about 150-175 eggs a year if you bought some of those White Rocks from Jim today. You could easily push them much higher. Size is fantastic, the females from that line are very long and deep, so if you selected thrifty hens (Hogan method!) for a couple years you would do very well, maybe the 200-250 range. Growth rate is good on them as well. I'd bet good money that you can't find a better strain of White Rocks in the country than what Mr. Volk produces.

I have a friend that raises excellent Black Australorps, Kevin Noorlander, next time I talk to him I'll ask him about laying. I know he hatches a ton of them so they gotta lay pretty well!

 

[BGMatt]

Digital Sportsman 1502 question as I know some of you have/use this and it is new to me.  Just set 24 NH eggs and with the humidity tray that came with the unit full of water, humidity is running 40 - 45%.  I always ran it a little higher for setting in my Hovabators and had very successful hatches from my own eggs.  Do any of you use the humidity pads to raise it for the setting period?  Also, the water in the tray completely evaporates every 3 days.  I have the humidity bucket, do you use it or just open the door and keep refilling the tray?  I will be hatching in the hovabators so no concerns with humidity then, I've got that down

Did you unplug vents? You have two choices with the 1502's to increase humidity you can adjust vents, or add the pads. I always favor opening vents and adding pads, there's a couple scientific studies that indicate more fresh oxygen the better.

Edit: forgot to answer the question about humidity bucket. I use that on the hatcher so I don't have to open door once they go in there, but during the first 18 days I just open incubator as needed to refill trays. The humidity bucket system is very prone to leakage so triple check all the connections and check the float. I had a plastic bur on mine that I had to remove so that it could move freely.

 

[Zanna]

Did you unplug vents? You have two choices with the 1502's to increase humidity you can adjust vents, or add the pads. I always favor opening vents and adding pads, there's a couple scientific studies that indicate more fresh oxygen the better.

It has 3 vents with plugs on the side with the digital readout, one has the plug cut so it is permanently open and two on the back with one cut and permanently open. You are saying use a humidity pad and take out some or all of the other 3 plugs if the humidity gets too high? I agree with the oxygen.........

 

[BGMatt]

It has 3 vents on the side with the digital readout, one has the plug cut so it is permanently open and two on the back with one cut and permanently open.  You are saying use a humidity pad and take out some or all of the other 3 plugs?  I agree with the oxygen.........

I put in the pads, then open vents until I reach the desired level of humidity. That way I know that A) you can actually hit the humidity level and B) have the maximum level of airflow and oxygen for a given level of humidity.

 

[Zanna]

I put in the pads, then open vents until I reach the desired level of humidity. That way I know that A) you can actually hit the humidity level and B) have the maximum level of airflow and oxygen for a given level of humidity.

Thanks much, I will play with that.

 

[Lacy Blues]

On the first question, I would say try her with both a bantam and a LF male and see what each produces - she may carry genes that differ from her phenotype.

On the second question, if they appear, post-molt, as you would expect them to after a normal 18-month molt, then yes, I would treat them that way. If they appear as if they have just gone through a juvenile molt with more to come in 6 months or so, all bets are off. If there is no discernible difference, treat them as if they have finished their 18-month molt, and hope for the best. Late/early hatches can throw things off, and I suspect every strain behaves a bit differently. If you were to hatch from them in the next month or two, they may do exactly as the parents and molt next December or January, and then hold for a full year. Would it be preferable to have them molt at 12 months rather than 18, to give you an earlier idea of adult plumage?

You know, I hadn't actually thought of it as an advantage in any way. Right now, with all the birds I have, only 2 or 3 are laying and its kind of aggravating. I don't think I'll be doing any more December hatches as I'm just not getting anything back from them right now. I wanted to start them on lights next month so need to get a timer going. They've been off long enough. The large fowl are finished molting except maybe a few wing feathers so they need to get back to work. The bantams have a little ways to go yet so I'll give them longer.

Ok, this large girl is in that group of bantams that have molted. Once they start laying again, I'll make sure she gets covered.

Thanks Pozees!

 

[hellbender]

On the first question, I would say try her with both a bantam and a LF male and see what each produces - she may carry genes that differ from her phenotype.

On the second question, if they appear, post-molt, as you would expect them to after a normal 18-month molt, then yes, I would treat them that way. If they appear as if they have just gone through a juvenile molt with more to come in 6 months or so, all bets are off. If there is no discernible difference, treat them as if they have finished their 18-month molt, and hope for the best. Late/early hatches can throw things off, and I suspect every strain behaves a bit differently. If you were to hatch from them in the next month or two, they may do exactly as the parents and molt next December or January, and then hold for a full year. Would it be preferable to have them molt at 12 months rather than 18, to give you an earlier idea of adult plumage?

I have ALWAYS hatched in the spring with a smaller hatch around August but this is strictly for my production situation.

Since we are planning to start a SOP breeding program, this is excellent information that simply never crossed my mind.

Thanks for the information. An answer to one person can help many!

EDITED: I've been around chickens my whole life and feel that I'm fairly well versed in many subjects pertaining to their husbandry. That said, I have learned much from the few threads I visit on this board...from this thread in particular and much of that info. comes from people who are generally much younger than I.

Thanks to you all.