Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[call ducks]

Here's a question...nobody has broached the subject as od yet but it was common practice back in the day to caponize the extra cockerels so that they would focus on size and weight gain.

Of meat is a foremost consideration, why not simply caponize and focus those culls for meat production?

Random thought at 2am.

Because in some places it may be illegal. It's also something you don't want to do if you don't have some one to teach you.

 

[brahmabreeder]

Here's a question...nobody has broached the subject as od yet but it was common practice back in the day to caponize the extra cockerels so that they would focus on size and weight gain.

Of meat is a foremost consideration, why not simply caponize and focus those culls for meat production?

Random thought at 2am.

Caponizing is a no go. Tried that once and was not impressed with the results. Then again they were hatchery RIR. Plus our death rate was a bit higher than I would of liked. I'd have to do some convincing to get my dad to help me again. My big issue with caponizing them is what if I caponize the best bird of the season? Then he would be utterly worthless except obviously as a meat bird. Maybe once I get my birds I could hatch a batch out and half the cockerels could get caponized and the other half not. That I could butcher all of them and compare the results.

 

[3riverschick]

~~Quote: Originally Posted by Canieldonrad View Post Well lets deep dive your options/desires. You want a solid color. Is white a consideration? You seem to be aiming toward a good meat bird. So white would be a great option if you, or those eating your birds, find pin feathers unsightly. If you don't care about pin feathers in the skin, pretty much everything is going to come in a (mostly) solid color. Is there a reason you wish for solid color? White is a consideration. My preference would be black or buff though. Solid color would be nice just since that's one less thing to have to worry about when deciding who is SQ/BQ and who is a cull. I already have my light Brahmas and need to hatch more of them in order to get a bird with good type AND color. Solid colored breeds really only need to worry about type so less chicks need to be hatched to get a quality bird. Have you considered slaughtering before 6 months? Birds can be pretty tough by 4 months of age. Birds can also be, depending on your roasting pan, too big at 7+lbs. The sooner the better is how I'm looking at it. I just want them to put meat on instead of just a big meatless frame. How cold does it get during a typical Winter? Generally Summer time is when casualty and stress occur, not Winter. Is your Summer time harsh? What sort of humidity do you see on a typical day in each season? Winter is usually never in the negatives. I would say teens and the twenties is the most common. Summer rarely goes in the 90's. Not sure about humidity. Are these birds being kept in confinement or ranged? This might have a great deal of impact on feed conversion and weight gain. Well the breeder birds will mainly be confined but will get time out in the run. All of the birds I'm raising up will get to free range.
----
Everything you keep quoting for needs and wants has Dragonlady's (50+ yrs. in poultry) Buff Orps (vintage strain)written all over it. Plus , you probably want a vintage strain bred by an experienced breeder.
Quotes by Dragonlady:

"My buxom Buff girls lay, almost to the day, at 5 months old, and they keep laying, through heat and cold. The Cockerels make a great carcass at 5-6 months old, with plenty of meat"

"Buff Orps from UK x US crosses. You get eggs, and lots of MEAT at 6 months old."
Best,
Karen

 

[Pozees]

Karen you nailed it, I was thinking the same thing. You can get something else and put breeding pressure on it to get what you want, or you can get some birds from Dragonlady who's already done the work for you.

 

[brahmabreeder]

I suppose those aren't a bad idea. I had a few hatchery ones a while ago. The one always made these obnoxious bawking noise. I'm sure that has something to do with the fact that they were hatchery strain though. Alright let me go check them out first.

Dragonlady: do you plan on coming up this way to show? I'm sure shipping them could get a bit pricey if I did decide that's what I wanted.

 

[brahmabreeder]

Ok I have to ask as I've never really understood this. If someone were to get say German New Hamps. would they breed to our standard or the German standard? If they competed with a bird bred to the German standard then would it be judged by our SOP or their SOP? I'm assuming it would be our SOP but then how would anyone win. But if they were bred to our standard then wouldn't they just basically become like what we already have? I mean I suppose I can see the purpose of importing a breed/variety if we don't already have but other than that I'm at a loss.

 

[Apdeb]

If you are lucky enough to buy birds from an experienced breeder!!! You should drive out and pick up the birds/chicks!!! Entirely worth it!!! I have done this with every bird i have purchased/swapped!! You will not be sorry!!

 

[Pozees]

APA show = APA standards

Dragonlady's Buffs are nothing like the hatchery models.

 

[gjensen]

I know a few people that are producing pretty good birds that get to 5lbs in the 12 wk range without being pushed. If you want to do it, you will. It is just a matter of want to. All of the speculation is just talk. It is just a matter of deciding what you need, getting what you need, and doing what you need to do.

5lb fryers at 12 wks (live weight) is a heck of a lot more economical than 24 wk old roasters.

I would like to try caponizing for the learning experience and just the experience in general. It is not illegal here, and if it was I would still do it if I chose to. I figure that my birds belong to me, and no one else. I will do as I please.

I like to think that I am working to keep or improve the productiveness of my birds. What is most challenging is breeding to a Standard and keeping productive birds. In my thinking, then you have something that is worth something. An accomplishment that is both attractive, healthy, long lived, and productive.

If meat or egg qualities was my only interest, I would not waste my time or money on anything but commercial hybrids. I will never achieve anything more efficient or productive.

I just want to pick the breed that appeals to my tastes, and ideals the most. Then I want to enjoy them and see what I can do with them. When I am watching my birds range, I want to see the best possible examples of that breed on my yard. I want to be proud of them and have accomplished something. I want to improve what I have, and feel like what I have represents the breed well.
I love to see the variety of breeds. The variety of tastes and ideals. I admire what generations of breeders have accomplished. A flock of uniform well bred birds on grass is a pleasure. They are an accomplishment and something of particular value.

When I walk through some one else's poultry yard, I like to admire what they have done and accomplished. Even when their breed is not my style, I can still appreciate the excellence in what is front of me. Well bred animals are accomplishments to be admired. Not anyone can do it.
To me it is kind of like gardening. Some people just have a few tomato plants, and that is how many of us start. If it catches our interest we keep plugging at it. We try things and we fail, but we like doing it so we keep doing it. Some people get good at it over time, and what they accomplish is admirable. If you like that kind of thing, you will never visit and leave without being better for the visit. You always walk away with new ideas and have been bettered by the experience.

I like to see well bred birds. I can enjoy walking a commercial corn field, but I enjoy more walking through the gardens of a master gardener.

 

[gjensen]

If you are lucky enough to buy birds from an experienced breeder!!! You should drive out and pick up the birds/chicks!!! Entirely worth it!!! I have done this with every bird i have purchased/swapped!! You will not be sorry!!

If it is possible, it is certainly better. I have been to Dragonlady's place a couple times, and was better for the experience both times. Not only do you enjoy the experience,the person, and the birds . . . you learn a lot to. You get a lot of ideas. There is a lot of smart people doing this.