Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[brahmabreeder]

Ok, so I'm in a slight panic mode. My one boy has been acting 'off' today and yesterday. I'm hoping it's just the cold but the other two aren't acting like this. First let me say what's going well with him:
•Good red face
•He's got good weight it's been going up since the mites
•Eating and drinking
•His eyes are clear, doesn't have a runny nose, and doesn't sound 'gurgly'
•Feathers also have nice sheen and seem well kept
•His balance is fine when he is walking around. I like to gently push/shove my birds when they look sick. If they fall over and act pathetic I know they will die soon.

Here's what concerns me:
• I noticed today and yesterday he likes to sit down; he just sits there and picks through the shavings or whatnot. Maybe he's just trying to keep warm?
• Since he's sitting down more he's not being as talkative with me. I mean when I picked up to check his color and stuff he was talking to me?
• Also his tail is slightly down. Not like I'm going to die down but a little bit.

Should I be concerned? I would rather it if he was going to 'kick the can' that I had at least a few nice birds from him first.

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
Vickie, it has been in the 70's here for weeks here, low 40's at night. It is unusually warm for winter. I need to be done hatching eggs in February or I will be trying to brood chicks in 100 degree weather. Which means I need to stop collecting eggs in a week or so. I want these chicks feathered out before the heat hits. Looks like it will hit early here, the way things are going.

Quote:
Good article. Thanks. The eggs that did hatch have hatched from different positions in the incubator and hatcher over two different hatches, and they hatched right on time.

What intrigued me was the different rates of hatches from different hens, whose eggs had undergone virtually identical collection/storage/incubation/hatcher conditions. Which makes me suspect genetics are at play here, or some other condition of the individual hens (who are all the same age).

I will take a closer look at this latest batch of eggs to see what went wrong. Still have some in the hatcher. Am giving them an extra two days before pulling them.

 

[ronott1]

Vickie, it has been in the 70's here for weeks here, low 40's at night. It is unusually warm for winter. I need to be done hatching eggs in February or I will be trying to brood chicks in 100 degree weather. Which means I need to stop collecting eggs in a week or so. I want these chicks feathered out before the heat hits. Looks like it will hit early here, the way things are going.



Good article. Thanks. The eggs that did hatch have hatched from different positions in the incubator and hatcher over two different hatches, and they hatched right on time.

What intrigued me was the different rates of hatches from different hens, whose eggs had undergone virtually identical collection/storage/incubation/hatcher conditions. Which makes me suspect genetics are at play here, or some other condition of the individual hens (who are all the same age).

I will take a closer look at this latest batch of eggs to see what went wrong. Still have some in the hatcher. Am giving them an extra two days before pulling them.

Perfect!

We learn from each hatch.

 

[saladin]

Vickie, it has been in the 70's here for weeks here, low 40's at night. It is unusually warm for winter. I need to be done hatching eggs in February or I will be trying to brood chicks in 100 degree weather. Which means I need to stop collecting eggs in a week or so. I want these chicks feathered out before the heat hits. Looks like it will hit early here, the way things are going.



Good article. Thanks. The eggs that did hatch have hatched from different positions in the incubator and hatcher over two different hatches, and they hatched right on time.

What intrigued me was the different rates of hatches from different hens, whose eggs had undergone virtually identical collection/storage/incubation/hatcher conditions. Which makes me suspect genetics are at play here, or some other condition of the individual hens (who are all the same age).

I will take a closer look at this latest batch of eggs to see what went wrong. Still have some in the hatcher. Am giving them an extra two days before pulling them.

Not necessarily genetics at all.
If you are flock mating, know that the cock will favor certain hens more than others.
If not, the hatch rate can be decrease because of the cock with a particular hen: he could be too young, too old, or just not treading her enough. Other possible issues: not hitting the vent, too much protein in the cocks diet, not enough folic acid, not enough selenium.
Also, if you didn't pull feathers that can be a problem.
There can be a multitude of difficulties. Don't jump to the genetic issue just yet. As a matter of fact, that should be your last choice.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: -------------------------------------
HI,
I read a scientific article on this subject 2 days go. Very interesting with a method to determine fecundity
of a hen's eggs before breeding season. So one could pick out the hen who was not laying fertile eggs.
Have to make a meal for the family now. Will look it up and post later. No, it wasn't Oscar Smart.
Best,
Karen
I can't find it, nuts. It was deep in the Net, I thought I had copied the URL.

 

[saladin]

If a hen is laying and the eggs aren't fertile, blame the cock.

 

[3riverschick]

What are the first two causes?

I'm asking because this is my first time hatching from known pairs. Of the eggs that developed enough to make it into the hatcher I am getting an 80% hatch rate from one hen, a 20% hatch rate from another hen (same cock), and a 0% hatch rate from the other two hens (one was under the same cock, the other was under a different cock). The hatched eggs have been right on schedule. The others have either pipped late and eventually died or have not pipped at all. The ones that pipped late and died were from the hens that have produced viable chicks. The 0% hens' eggs have had 0% pips. Since all these eggs have been in the same incubator and the same hatcher at the same time I don't think the problem is conditions in the incubator or hatcher. But I could be wrong.

On the positive side, it's pretty clear which birds have offspring with the most vigor, and that is top priority. If it's a vigor issue, vigor should improve from year to year as those genes become more widespread in the flock, and that is a good thing. If it is related to hatching technique I am open to suggestions about what to try.

I am hatching in a Genesis Hovabator and the eggs are in egg cartons with the bottoms cut out. The eggs from different hens are separated in the hatcher by plastic mesh "corrals" that I made from plastic needlepoint mesh. The mesh separates the chicks from different pairs while allowing a lot of airflow. I'm only hatching 10-12 eggs at a time. Most of the eggs are coming from the hens with successful hatches.

If there is something I could try different to improve the hatch rate I would like to know. On the other hand, if improving the hatch rate from this set of birds means hatching more chicks that aren't as vigorous, maybe I shouldn't try to "improve" the hatch rate at this point. Maybe it's best to let selection work on its own.

Insight would be appreciated.

Sarah

Sarah,
I am working on a science project to enhance growth and health in my chicks
Yeah, I am always out there on the road less traveled. But I have come to the
point in life where I no longer care if anyone joins me. I just do it for the joy of
learning. . Like quilting or knitting, only I do it with ideas. I just post the info
and the interested can read it. Anyway, in the last 6 years "circadian incubation"
has been a very hot and well received topic in the pro poultry community. Look
it up. That one degree temp change ( have to read the articles thoroughly) may
be just the thing you need to get a better outcome with your chicks.
Best,
Karen

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
You are right, in most cases it is not genetics. On the other hand, these are eggs from individual pairings in my breeding pens. I know the hen and the cock. And these are eggs that were well developed on day 18 when I moved them into the hatcher - or at least looked well developed in the limited view I get with my particular candling equipment. (They are brown eggs and it is hard to see details.) I'm not counting the eggs that were clear or did not develop beyond the early stages.

These breeders are all slightly over one year old and all are from the same batch of 25 chicks. Some pairings may be brother-sister pairings since I do not know the parentage of the birds and they were all hatched at the same time. Genetics may be playing a stronger component here than usual due to the possible inadvertent brother-sister inbreeding. Once I know the ancestry of the birds for a few generations that should not be an issue.

I'm not convinced this issue is all genetics. I suspect there are several factors involved. Humidity being one factor that has been especially problematic this year, but I thought I had gotten it under control. I wasn't counting the two earlier hatches where I definitely had too much humidity in the incubator and got a 0% hatch from everything. It has been under pretty good control for the last two hatches, and those were the eggs I was counting.

Good thing this is more of a test year than a must-breed-everything year. Next year I will be able to use older hens and older cocks, hopefully paired with cockerels and pullets, and won't have any inadvertent brother-sister matings. And I may try a late fall breeding session if the hens are still laying. Summers here are brutal and they are getting longer every year. I'd like to grow the chicks out in cooler weather to try and get the size up. We will see.

Sarah

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
Karen, thanks. I'll check it out.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Ok, so I'm in a slight panic mode. My one boy has been acting 'off' today and yesterday. I'm hoping it's just the cold but the other two aren't acting like this. First let me say what's going well with him:
•Good red face
•He's got good weight it's been going up since the mites
•Eating and drinking
•His eyes are clear, doesn't have a runny nose, and doesn't sound 'gurgly'
•Feathers also have nice sheen and seem well kept
•His balance is fine when he is walking around. I like to gently push/shove my birds when they look sick. If they fall over and act pathetic I know they will die soon.

Here's what concerns me:
• I noticed today and yesterday he likes to sit down; he just sits there and picks through the shavings or whatnot. Maybe he's just trying to keep warm?
• Since he's sitting down more he's not being as talkative with me. I mean when I picked up to check his color and stuff he was talking to me?
• Also his tail is slightly down. Not like I'm going to die down but a little bit.

Should I be concerned? I would rather it if he was going to 'kick the can' that I had at least a few nice birds from him first.

Is this in your Brahma male?

I noticed with the Brahmas that they lie down alot just before they get ready to go into molt. Tail usually starts drooping next. Maybe check the feathers and see if the quill is looking old? That could be your culprit.