Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[3riverschick]

Of course, longer length will mean more general space and wall area, but studies have shown an increase in the length of existing villi in broilers and layers alike after they were fed with fermented feed grains for a period of time(though no increase in the actual length of the intestines themselves). The test group not fed FF showed no additional lengthening of intestinal villi during the same time period.

Take a look at this particular study, Beekissed. What do you think?

Irish Journal of Agricultural and Food Research 50: 249–254, 2011
†Corresponding author: [email protected]

A note on the effects of a combination of an enzyme complex and probiotic
in the diet on performance of broiler chickens

R. Momtazan1, H. Moravej1, M. Zaghari1 and H.R. Taheri2† 1Department of Animal Science,
University College of Agricultural and Natural Resources, University of Tehran, 31587-11167

Karaj, Iran 2Department of Animal Science, Faculty of Agriculture, University of Zanjan, 45195-313 Zanjan, Iran

http://www.teagasc.ie/research/journalarchives/vol50no2/ijafr_6710.pdf

 

[gjensen]

It would definitely augment it, though I'm not sure it would compensate for an abnormally short bowel enough to keep a bird's nutritional uptake on par with birds with a normal bowel length fed on the same feeds.

I'm not sure I've ever heard that short bowel was a problem in poultry breeding. Is this something that they have found with certain types of breeding that has caused a problem with nutritional uptake and a resulting deficiency? That would be a tough thing to cull/breed for because you'd never know it existed until you killed a bird and found out.

I agree with Bee to include that you will have a hard time selecting for it. The bird is dead before it is known.

Consider quantity of surface area.

There is some studies on the matter. One was that they were giving the birds bamboo leaves, and these birds had longer intestines than a control group. The birds were adapting to their diet. Obviously they did not perform well on the bamboo leaves, but they did survive. This was a Korean study (South not North), if you want to try to find it.

 

[gjensen]

And I prefer the killing cones. I can work through them faster with less mess. It does not take long to stick and cut a half dozen birds restrained in place.

I use a hatchet on single birds.

 

[3riverschick]

It would definitely augment it, though I'm not sure it would compensate for an abnormally short bowel enough to keep a bird's nutritional uptake on par with birds with a normal bowel length fed on the same feeds.

I'm not sure I've ever heard that short bowel was a problem in poultry breeding. Is this something that they have found with certain types of breeding that has caused a problem with nutritional uptake and a resulting deficiency? That would be a tough thing to cull/breed for because you'd never know it existed until you killed a bird and found out.

No, I was not thinking a shorter bowel was a problem, I was thinking a longer bowel was a problem and the answer might be a supplement program which would promote more and longer villi growth ( which in this case also resulted in a shorter small intestine which the researchers couldn't explain). I was thinking a longer small intestine might be the "excess offal" breeders say to avoid. That in breeding for proper amount of offal, maybe a related answer to that was to also help grow longer, and more villi at the same time.

 

[3riverschick]

Is it wrong to conclude that if a bird is given an easy to digest diet ...with proper supplements to encourage growth
of villi and to promote proper flora & bed sentiment in the small intestine.. that the bird does not require as long
a small intestine as one fed a poorer diet without supplements?

 

[gjensen]

No, I was not thinking a shorter bowel was a problem, I was thinking a longer bowel was a problem and the answer might be a supplement program which would promote more and longer villi growth ( which in this case also resulted in a shorter small intestine which the researchers couldn't explain). I was thinking a longer small intestine might be the "excess offal" breeders say to avoid. That in breeding for proper amount of offal, maybe a related answer to that was to also help grow longer, and more villi at the same time.

I get where you are coming from now. I remember the article that you shared.

Offal is waste. It was more a reference to flesh vs. offal. Product vs. waste. Intestines was not what was being communicated.

Consider where the author was coming from. Picture a battery of Sussex getting fattened. He was describing a bird that had a surplus of flesh and not an excessive amount of waste. When he was looking at a bird, he was looking at a product. A quantity of usable parts.

I hope that I remember it well. It was some time since you posted that.

 

[brahmabreeder]

Ok, so now that the one rooster that was planned to be used this year is out of the question I went ahead and put the other male on the two lonesome hens. None of their eggs were fertile which didn't really surprise me but they should start becoming fertile. Once I got him in the pen and closed the door I checked to see what they were doing and he immediately got down to business!!! Now I can start catching up for lost time. Hopefully the other two hens will start to lay more consistently. The one hen keeps giving double yolkers on top of the inconsistent laying form that pen

.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Just wondering, is there something in the diet that causes a hen to lay double yolkers or is it strictly genetic? Assuming she ever lays a single yolk egg and you hatch a pullet from it, would that pullet be more likely to lay double yolkers or is there something that can be done to keep her from going that direction?

 

[3riverschick]

Just wondering, is there something in the diet that causes a hen to lay double yolkers or is it strictly genetic? Assuming she ever lays a single yolk egg and you hatch a pullet from it, would that pullet be more likely to lay double yolkers or is there something that can be done to keep her from going that direction?

I don't know. But one time I bought a dozen eggs at the store and all 12 were double yolkers.

 

[crazyhen]

Just wondering, is there something in the diet that causes a hen to lay double yolkers or is it strictly genetic? Assuming she ever lays a single yolk egg and you hatch a pullet from it, would that pullet be more likely to lay double yolkers or is there something that can be done to keep her from going that direction?

I do not believe its the diet. It would likely be genetic. I would not try her as a breeder for that reason, unless you want a future double yolker layer. You would still not be able to hatch easily a double yolker. They usually die.