Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[hellbender]

What is that hanging?

It's a chuck that the Patterdale fooled us with. I never dreamed the pup, at just a bit more than 6 months, destroyed by himself.

 

[hellbender]

What is that hanging?

Sorry...double post.

 

[thedragonlady]

It's a chuck that the Patterdale fooled us with. I never dreamed the pup, at just a bit more than 6 months, destroyed by himself.

Thought so ! Good pup !

 

[gjensen]

Back to Heritage Large Fowl...

A couple of my Black Java chicks are developing wing covert feathers that stick out from the body instead of fitting closely to the body. The chicks are obviously culls, but I have not seen this before and was wondering if anyone could give me a clue as to what causes it, or what I need to watch for in future matings. The chicks are from two different hens. Not sure who the cock was - eggs were collected during a transition period and it could have been either of two different birds. The weird feather growth is symmetrical and has been consistent ever since the feathers started growing in. It's not just a mussed-up bird.

Chick in photo is three weeks old:





These photos are of the same three week old chick. The flash washed out the black in the second photo.

Sarah

Edited to add: They don't all look like this! Several of them look really good.

I wouldn't worry about them yet. I would just watch them and see how they molt out into their adult plumage. There is a few ragged feather genes, but that is not what that likes like to me. How many do you have growing out?

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:

Quote:
I have 30 chicks growing out and two are showing this weird feather growth. The photos don't really capture what I was trying to show. The wing coverts are pointing up and out, instead of lying close to the wing and pointing back. It is more than just messy feathers, which all the chicks have. There is a structural component to the weird way these feathers are growing out. When you see the chick in real life the wing coverts look almost like a second set of wings cocked for takeoff. The feathers might grow out normally in later molts, but I doubt if this bird will ever be as close-feathered as the standard calls for. I could be wrong. That's why I posted the photos and asked.

Hellbender, I called the chicks obvious culls because feather quality is an issue. This pointing-up feather pattern is the opposite of the much-desired "close feathering" called for in the standard for this breed. Plus it looks like cr@p and I don't like it. No point in growing out a bird that has a trait the opposite of what I'm looking for and expresses that trait as a young chick - unless there is a good chance that trait will go away in subsequent molts and the chick has other redeeming qualities. So far this particular chick is short on "other redeeming qualities."

I started with this breed last year. I got a straight run of 25 chicks, all of whom had normal feathering as they grew out. It was a messy way to start because I don't know who is related to whom. The breeding pairs I set up this year may have included some inadvertent brother-sister pairings. I expect to have to weed out a lot of random-seeming weird mutations for the first three or four years as whatever hidden genes they may be carrying get expressed. After a few years I should have enough records to avoid those overly-inbred pairings. In the meantime a lot of heavy culling may be required until I can reduce the amount of inbreeding and get things stabilized.

I suspect this wing covert trait is one of those hidden genes coming out, but it's better to ask first and cull later.

Thanks, everybody!

Sarah

 

[NeilsHamburgs]

When the wing feathers come all the way in they will get back in order.

 

[gjensen]

I have 30 chicks growing out and two are showing this weird feather growth. The photos don't really capture what I was trying to show. The wing coverts are pointing up and out, instead of lying close to the wing and pointing back. It is more than just messy feathers, which all the chicks have. There is a structural component to the weird way these feathers are growing out. When you see the chick in real life the wing coverts look almost like a second set of wings cocked for takeoff. The feathers might grow out normally in later molts, but I doubt if this bird will ever be as close-feathered as the standard calls for. I could be wrong. That's why I posted the photos and asked.

Hellbender, I called the chicks obvious culls because feather quality is an issue. This pointing-up feather pattern is the opposite of the much-desired "close feathering" called for in the standard for this breed. Plus it looks like cr@p and I don't like it. No point in growing out a bird that has a trait the opposite of what I'm looking for and expresses that trait as a young chick - unless there is a good chance that trait will go away in subsequent molts and the chick has other redeeming qualities. So far this particular chick is short on "other redeeming qualities."

I started with this breed last year. I got a straight run of 25 chicks, all of whom had normal feathering as they grew out. It was a messy way to start because I don't know who is related to whom. The breeding pairs I set up this year may have included some inadvertent brother-sister pairings. I expect to have to weed out a lot of random-seeming weird mutations for the first three or four years as whatever hidden genes they may be carrying get expressed. After a few years I should have enough records to avoid those overly-inbred pairings. In the meantime a lot of heavy culling may be required until I can reduce the amount of inbreeding and get things stabilized.

I suspect this wing covert trait is one of those hidden genes coming out, but it's better to ask first and cull later.

Thanks, everybody!

Sarah

If the birds were not overly inbred to begin with, a brother/sister mating would not hurt anything. The practice is used more often than we might think. It is a good way to set a trait(s). I see it as a tool and option. Of course you would not want to make a regular practice of it.

You know your birds better than anyone else. I would mark them and see how they feathered out in the long run. Then you will have a better idea what you are dealing with next year.

Just so that you know, feather quality was a concern of mine with my start in the Catalanas. I had a few start out pretty rough. They looked a little more ragged than that, if I remember correctly. I got a little more concerned about it than I should have. I even made the comment that I thought I had a lurking problem. They did not end up having any better or worse feather quality than their pen mates.

The way I see it, anything different than the rest is worth paying attention to. The more I can identify early on, the more that I can grow out. We just have to be sure that we know what we are seeing.

 

[NYREDS]

That is a waste of perfectly good beef tongue. I loved eating tongue as a kid.

Too true. Tongue, properly prepared, is one of the best parts of a cow.

 

[NYREDS]

Back to Heritage Large Fowl...

A couple of my Black Java chicks are developing wing covert feathers that stick out from the body instead of fitting closely to the body. The chicks are obviously culls, but I have not seen this before and was wondering if anyone could give me a clue as to what causes it, or what I need to watch for in future matings. The chicks are from two different hens. Not sure who the cock was - eggs were collected during a transition period and it could have been either of two different birds. The weird feather growth is symmetrical and has been consistent ever since the feathers started growing in. It's not just a mussed-up bird.

Chick in photo is three weeks old:





These photos are of the same three week old chick. The flash washed out the black in the second photo.

Sarah

Edited to add: They don't all look like this! Several of them look really good.

Your bids so do what you want but culling at 3 weeks for anything other than physical deformities/disqualifications is often a mistake.

 

[NYREDS]

Lacy Blues...I can understand why you would feel

about eating any part of any rodent but...if **it hits the fan, you and many others will soon be out in the City Parks and common wood lots, looking for ny thing form fox squirrels to chipmunks!

Rabbits were once conidered rodents & rabbit meat is delicious. High in protein, low in fat & easily digestible. Fast growing & efficient converters of feed to meat. Ther's a lot to recommend rabbit meat. At one point we ate mostly what I killed or grew. Meat rabbits were always part of that equation.