Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[gjensen]

More than nice, I'd say essential if you want feedback. Kindof difficult to help with selecting birds you can't see.

I know I've said this before & got jumped on by a number of people but if someone uses your picture so what? How does that do you any real harm?

I couldn't care less if someone used pictures of mine. If they are stupid enough to do it, LOL.

I did notice that pictures of my Catalanas now dominate Google images. I was not real excited about it, because I do not think they are good examples. On the other hand, you would hope people are smart enough to sort through that.

 

[RedRidge]

Normally people ask. .. I had a gal who is getting some chicks from me ask if she could put some of my pics on get blog until she had pics of her own. I told her as long as she used the water mark pics that was fine. Easy to water mark these days, I just forget to do it half the time.

 

[WindStep]

Hello I haven't been here for a wile!

 

[capayvalleychick]

Random comment here ...

I sometimes give tours of my ranch to people who are interested in my animals. Other than people that I know through BYC, the visitors who come here to see my chickens have never heard of Standard Bred poultry.

These visitors are usually family farmers or homesteaders. They may be familiar with the term "heritage chickens", yet they have no interest in breeding to a standard. I have trouble convincing people- especially farmers- that the utility of these breeds will be improved by using the SOP as a guide.

I'm seeing more people asking for breeder bred birds, rather than hatchery birds, but they still aren't understanding the difference between breeders who flock mate randomly and breeders who use the SOP for selection.

Our local 4H & FFA seem to only be focused on production meat chickens. For an ag focused county, our county fair poultry show is a disgrace, IMO. There are many organic farms in this region that raise a huge amount of poultry products. Some advertise their birds as "heritage chicken" but they are all hatchery production birds. That part of the community really scoffs at what I am doing.

That's why I was so happy this week. A young intern from one of the organic farms came for a tour, to discuss my dogs & pigs. Another intern came along with her, because she "just had to see my chickens." Both of them want to start their own farms, using heritage breeds. This was encouraging for me to hear.
The best part was when I took them to my breeding and cull pens. Visitors always comment on how big my Dorking roosters are, and I tell them that they are 2 pounds smaller than they should be, which amazes them.
I started my talk about the differences between Standard bred and hatchery chickens. Visitors are never interested in this. To my delight, the intern that was interested in my chickens already knew the term "standard bred" and what it meant. She had come to see how a farmer would set up a breeding program in an integrated livestock system. She wanted to see the buildings and hear how it all works. She had already interned on another farm with standard bred birds, so is researching how to do it for when she has her own farm. She has also been researching Delawares and had read about Kathy's Delawares. She was thrilled to see them in person.

I had to share this with you all because maybe you will understand my joy in this. I think Bob would be happy to know that a young, future farmer is going to choose standard bred fowl.

 

[fowlman01]

Random comment here ...

I sometimes give tours of my ranch to people who are interested in my animals. Other than people that I know through BYC, the visitors who come here to see my chickens have never heard of Standard Bred poultry.

These visitors are usually family farmers or homesteaders. They may be familiar with the term "heritage chickens", yet they have no interest in breeding to a standard. I have trouble convincing people- especially farmers- that the utility of these breeds will be improved by using the SOP as a guide.

I'm seeing more people asking for breeder bred birds, rather than hatchery birds, but they still aren't understanding the difference between breeders who flock mate randomly and breeders who use the SOP for selection.

Our local 4H & FFA seem to only be focused on production meat chickens. For an ag focused county, our county fair poultry show is a disgrace, IMO. There are many organic farms in this region that raise a huge amount of poultry products. Some advertise their birds as "heritage chicken" but they are all hatchery production birds. That part of the community really scoffs at what I am doing.

That's why I was so happy this week. A young intern from one of the organic farms came for a tour, to discuss my dogs & pigs. Another intern came along with her, because she "just had to see my chickens." Both of them want to start their own farms, using heritage breeds. This was encouraging for me to hear.
The best part was when I took them to my breeding and cull pens. Visitors always comment on how big my Dorking roosters are, and I tell them that they are 2 pounds smaller than they should be, which amazes them.
I started my talk about the differences between Standard bred and hatchery chickens. Visitors are never interested in this. To my delight, the intern that was interested in my chickens already knew the term "standard bred" and what it meant. She had come to see how a farmer would set up a breeding program in an integrated livestock system. She wanted to see the buildings and hear how it all works. She had already interned on another farm with standard bred birds, so is researching how to do it for when she has her own farm. She has also been researching Delawares and had read about Kathy's Delawares. She was thrilled to see them in person.

I had to share this with you all because maybe you will understand my joy in this. I think Bob would be happy to know that a young, future farmer is going to choose standard bred fowl.

Bob would have been be very happy to hear this...I'm very happy to hear this as well. Many people think that Standard bred birds are nothing more than a pretty bag of feathers and shows are for beauty alone and not function. There is no reason that breeding to the APA Standard should not increase the productivity of any breed. Most large fowl were bred to perform...they did not have the luxury to breed ornamental chickens.

Walt

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Nice story.
I just got my first organic gardening and chicken husbandry apprentice. He's really excited to be working here.

 

[Arielle]

Hi,
I need some help deciding which of my boys to use a primary stud cock.
I had thought the obvious choice was " Knight and Day ". Went out
yesterday and his brother " Tux " is looking so good. If I post some pics
can someone in the know please advise on proper breed type? I am not
worried about color, plumage or extremities. I am trying to figure out breed silhouette, carriage and symmetry. It has been a hard winter and the boys are not as plump as they should be, were we in a warmer clime.
I admit to being very loath to share photos. I do worry someone will steal them or decry the birds. However, I need the help.
Best,
Karen

Karen-- you can put a water mark on those pics, or taken them back off. LIghting is always important in pics, hope you can get some good pics. OFten an overcast day that is not windy works for me.

Random comment here ...

I sometimes give tours of my ranch to people who are interested in my animals. Other than people that I know through BYC, the visitors who come here to see my chickens have never heard of Standard Bred poultry.

These visitors are usually family farmers or homesteaders. They may be familiar with the term "heritage chickens", yet they have no interest in breeding to a standard. I have trouble convincing people- especially farmers- that the utility of these breeds will be improved by using the SOP as a guide.

I'm seeing more people asking for breeder bred birds, rather than hatchery birds, but they still aren't understanding the difference between breeders who flock mate randomly and breeders who use the SOP for selection.

Our local 4H & FFA seem to only be focused on production meat chickens. For an ag focused county, our county fair poultry show is a disgrace, IMO. There are many organic farms in this region that raise a huge amount of poultry products. Some advertise their birds as "heritage chicken" but they are all hatchery production birds. That part of the community really scoffs at what I am doing.

That's why I was so happy this week. A young intern from one of the organic farms came for a tour, to discuss my dogs & pigs. Another intern came along with her, because she "just had to see my chickens." Both of them want to start their own farms, using heritage breeds. This was encouraging for me to hear.
The best part was when I took them to my breeding and cull pens. Visitors always comment on how big my Dorking roosters are, and I tell them that they are 2 pounds smaller than they should be, which amazes them.
I started my talk about the differences between Standard bred and hatchery chickens. Visitors are never interested in this. To my delight, the intern that was interested in my chickens already knew the term "standard bred" and what it meant. She had come to see how a farmer would set up a breeding program in an integrated livestock system. She wanted to see the buildings and hear how it all works. She had already interned on another farm with standard bred birds, so is researching how to do it for when she has her own farm. She has also been researching Delawares and had read about Kathy's Delawares. She was thrilled to see them in person.

I had to share this with you all because maybe you will understand my joy in this. I think Bob would be happy to know that a young, future farmer is going to choose standard bred fowl.

THanks for sharing-- wonderful news when someone gets it.

 

[3riverschick]

Thank you. snowing today, I think I will take them inside.
Best,
Karen

 

[gjensen]

That is why it is important to be mindful of a breed's historic reputation, paying attention to the description under "economic qualities". It is laziness to do otherwise. We do these birds no favors by not preferring productive individuals, good sized and shaped eggs, appropriate rate of growth, etc.

I have been frustrated by people scoffing at breeding to a Standard, and whether or not they could be a practical option. I do not get it. On the other hand, we need to be honest with ourselves. Many of our best looking strains, perform very poorly. Not all of them do, but is sometimes the case.

I have been unable to rationalize breeding a breed without a standard. Also, I do not see a standard description as an all inclusive directive on breeding poultry.

I agree with Walt. These breeds were bred to perform, so do we breed these birds to perform? We were much more practical then than now.

There are many points that are easy to identify that has no mention in the Standard. It did not have to be. It was largely known. Point of lay, age a bird gets to an appropriate weight, when they molt, how long they take to molt, egg size and quality, etc. These are all easy for anyone to identify and can be measured.

These birds should not just look as they should. They should do as they should. What good is a Leghorn that lays few eggs? A New Hampshire or Delaware that is slow to feather out and mature? A seven pound hen that lays medium sized eggs?
I have had and heard mention of pullets that come into lay @ 32-36 wks. It is mentioned as if it is some badge of authenticity concerning the label "Heritage". That sits well with me concerning some of the oldest breeds, or breeds that were developed for other reasons. For most farm fowl, I do not think that makes a whole lot of sense. I understand that we are starting with what we could, so I am not knocking them. Still that does not mean that it is good enough.

Most of the breeds and varieties that I am interested in were farm fowl, so I see them as farm fowl. I would like to see them perform like a good farm fowl. I believe that is a reasonable expectation.

 

[3riverschick]

That is why it is important to be mindful of a breed's historic reputation, ....

Most of the breeds and varieties that I am interested in were farm fowl, so I see them as farm fowl. I would like to see them perform like a good farm fowl. I believe that is a reasonable expectation.

There's a great dog book out there called, "Solving the Mysteries Of Breed Type". The author, Carmen Battaglia , is a legendary dog man, both breeder and judge. He explains that in order to breed properly we must be able to understand proper breed type. Simple enough. Judge Battaglia goes on to explain that this is very difficult if we do not understand the history and origins of a breed. So many folk miss this. It would be like Michelangelo trying to sculpt the "David" without studying human anatomy. The author explains we study the history and origins of a breed so we can understand the nuances of a breed. In a large part, it is the understanding of these nuances which enable us to select for proper breed type. Tho this is a dog book, the philosophy and application will also work for poultry breeding. We can take the SOP and put together a bird piece by piece that fits the SOP word for word. However, if we don't study the history and origins of the breed, we don't understand why, historically these pieces need to go together this way and why it is important they do. Take the Sussex for instance;
1. Why does it have white legs? Fancy ( ornamental)or Fact ( utilitarian) Fact, it has white legs because yellow legs denote foreign blood from which breed Sussex folk do not want productive qualities.
The Sussex is a study in compromise. Of the various color varieties, each has been pulled back to the middle of the genetic road from the extremes in the various breeds used to create them. Basically, if it doesn't look like a Sussex, it isn't a Sussex. Why? Because the hallmarks of the breed, begotten by the history and origins of the breed determine the "breed". Yet this is not enough to make a Sussex. It is the "use" of the breed that defines the breed aspects left out of the SOP, the nuances of the breed. It is understanding these nuances that enables us to select for proper breed type for the total bird, not just the written description.
Best,
Karen

Interesting side note about Judge Battaglia. Early in his career he made a specialty of finding and matching dogs with Hollywood celebrities.
One night he had a dog to deliver to a local couple. He was tired that day and decided to deliver it the next day. The next morning, he woke
up to find the couple had been murdered the night before...by the Manson clan.