Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[thedragonlady]

Question, something I'm trying to help a friend with, do you notice that with the early point of lay that you end up with a large sexual dimorphism with the cockerels finishing out much larger than the pullets? The idea being a pullet that starts laying early has to split her calories between growth and laying.

No. My pullets are very large, and continue to grow into 10-11 lb hens, due to very good feed, and frequent worming.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: How large are the pullets compared to the cckls?

 

[Arielle]

IN horses the DUtch study the relatioinships between characterisitcs. obviously not singe singes studied, but the effect of numerous genes on a characteristic. What they found was that looking at the population as a whole horses that were extra ordinary jumpers were poor at dressage; and vice versa. Of course there is always the exceptional horse that can do both well-- but that is very rare. HIstorically they bred for a horse that can do both, so their abilites to perform in either sport is far better than our most common breeds. To maximize abilites, the horses have been split into diferent stud books, are are bred for one or the other but not both. ( Only the gelderlander is now dual purpose).

I see chickens like this. Mostly dual purpose, but lean toward one or the other: layer or meat. And a few have specialized into layers like the leghorn or a meat type like a Jersey giant.

Bottom line is that perhaps the characteristics for a good meat bird is oppositional to a good layer.

 

[thedragonlady]

How large are the pullets compared to the cckls?

The pullets will weigh 1-2 lbs less than the cockerels, on average, until 18 months old .My cockerels dress out at 4 1/2+ lbs, at 4 1/2- 5 months.

It is a constant challenge to balance laying ability, and meat production. Short backed Orps do not lay well, but they do produce a meaty carcass. I select for longer bodied, NOT longer tailed , WIDE birds, who also have great depth of keel. Then you have the best of both.

 

[armorfirelady]

Dragon lady do you think choosing longer bodied hens also prevents pinched tail? Most of my hatchery hens that are Hanley bodied have pinched tails but my BCM who seems to be longer bodied doesn't seem to have pinched tail. Or do you think it's more of a combination of longer bodied and wide body that prevents pinched tail?

 

[Canieldonrad]

Refresh my memory-- how long have you had this line? If recently, from which breeder??

Laura haggarty. Got 30 chicks in Spring 2013. Culled to what I wanted, down to six. Very happy with this year's crop.


Also, I use ABA bands. Banded my first culling of pullets this morning. The 22mm bands barely fit over the foot at this point.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Amen! Animal protein is critical and most commercial feeds are way low in animal protein. You simply can't put enough fish meal in a feed to Hey enough animal protein without fishy eggs, this is why supplementing with BSF or some other animal protein is critical. For chicks you can feed a lot of fish meal with no side effects, but who can afford to feed that much.
Soy is not an animal protein (add is garbage anyway imo).
I love field peas but again, not animal protein.
Balance with animal protein and "ridiculously high protein" is unnecessary.

Hi,
Those of you using higher protein percentages raising your HLF, a question.
I am feeding 22% now and think I need to up the percentages for my Sussex.
Would your recommend starting at 28% and moving to 24% at 7 weeks?
Or starting at 26% and moving to 24% at 7 weeks?
Also, the feed will be for both sexes at the same time. What is the highest % of
calcium that can be fed to the males in an "all flock feed".
Thanks,
Karen

IMO that's too high. 20 would be plenty for the first 8 weeks and then cut back to about 16.
I'm using a 16% organic grower for all ages and add a 60% fishmeal for chicks and molting birds. A 10:1 ratio gives me 20% total protein.
Studies show that excess protein fed during the late growth period and pre-breeding causes an increase in plasma uric acid. That can lead to articular gout.
Commercial male broiler breeders are usually started on 18% crude protein.

1.5% calcium is a good compromise for pre-breeding males.
Over 2% can cause renal disease.

 

[unkadan]

No. My pullets are very large, and continue to grow into 10-11 lb hens, due to very good feed, and frequent worming.

Vickie, lots of discussion on feeds, perhaps you could pass on your method of "frequent worming"?

thks your opinion and experience are always of interest here

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Chris McCathy is sending chicks to me in early APril, weather permitting, and his stock is partly form Laura, and some URch to replenish his stock after some losses.

BIg feet??

 

[RedRidge]

Amen! Animal protein is critical and most commercial feeds are way low in animal protein. You simply can't put enough fish meal in a feed to Hey enough animal protein without fishy eggs, this is why supplementing with BSF or some other animal protein is critical. For chicks you can feed a lot of fish meal with no side effects, but who can afford to feed that much.

Soy is not an animal protein (add is garbage anyway imo).

I love field peas but again, not animal protein.

Balance with animal protein and "ridiculously high protein" is unnecessary.

 
Hi,
 Those of you using higher protein percentages raising your HLF, a question.
I am feeding 22% now and think I need to up the percentages for my Sussex.
Would your recommend starting at 28% and moving to 24% at 7 weeks?
Or starting at 26% and moving to 24% at 7 weeks?
 Also, the feed will be for both sexes at the same time. What is the highest % of
calcium that can be fed to the males in an "all flock feed".
 Thanks,
 Karen

IMO that's too high. 20 would be plenty for the first 8 weeks and then cut back to about 16.
I'm using a 16% organic grower for all ages and add a 60% fishmeal for chicks and molting birds. A 10:1 ratio gives me 20% total protein.
Studies show that excess protein fed during the late growth period and pre-breeding causes an increase in plasma uric acid. That can lead to articular gout.
Commercial male broiler breeders are usually started on 18% crude protein.

1.5% calcium is a good compromise for pre-breeding males.
Over 2% can cause renal disease.

I never feed more than 20% and cut to 16-17 between 6 and 12 months.
As noted above... Never feed BSF to chicks. .. way too high on calcium. We only feed bsf to the laying hens.