Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[gjensen]

Lacy, I do not know how to reconcile all of this. I tend to think that the Standard is referencing a type of feather, and not exclusively the rate of feathering.

I have the same problem with the Catalanas, and have no experience fixing it. I would like to hear more on the subject myself. All I know to do is to try to identify birds that have better feather quality and width of feather.

 

[lualshannon]

 
Hi,
 Yes, there are a bunch of Dorking folk here. We all learn when Yellow House Farm posts.
Hopefully he will see your post and weigh in! I agree about coydogs. Scary critters.  Mentally,
they don't know if they are coyote or canine, sigh. Every one deserved a cleverly placed bullet.
Wipe them all out. In the past we didn't see as many of them because  canine bitches and
she coyotes whelped at different times of the year and the young didn't survive in the wild.
Now tho, the coyotes are becoming more urbanized and the mixes are surviving. 
They are pure varmints.
 Best,
 Karen

Coydogs are one thing, but the coyWOLVES are quite another.We have both down here now.All you have to do to differentiate them is to get a look at their teeth.The coywolves have no spaces between their teeth just like a wolf, and much larger teeth as well.Some of both are now getting up to 65 and 70 lbs, and can pull down a child.

Hi Karen, and Vickie,
Do you remember the Wolfdog craze which lasted up until couple of years ago when the not so smart breeders, and owners ended up with terribly fatal attacks, and in two instances that I know of being killed by these so called dogs?
They were crossing the wolves with dogs of aggressive temperaments, and claiming that when the offspring trained properly, they were sweet and docile like bunny rabbits? Insane! Regardless of how much a dog is trained, when the opportunity arises, the true character surfaces, and they do what is in their nature.
Recently, to my horror I've heard that some are now crossing the dogs with coyotes which I think is a fine example of : the art of stupidity....
Lual

 

[hellbender]

Ok, so following that thought through... what can I do about it? The standard says that quick feathering is linked to feather quality... unless I'm really misunderstanding it. If it isn't, what can I do to better the quality of my birds' feathers? They seem brittle and easily frayed, though I've never made any attempt to verify it. I don't intentionally go around breaking my birds feathers to test their tensile strength and I don't intentionally rub individual feathers backwards to see how much they can take before the barbicels (or whatever they're called) come detached and stay that way.

Is it diet related or genetic? I'll be watching my early feathering birds to see how they feather out compared to the others and see where it goes from there but if anybody has any idea as to how to make better feathers, I'm all ears.

Just a guess here but I'm 'guessing' there is a nutritional part to this equation. Just what it is, I have no idea.

 

[Lacy Blues]

I'm thinking I would like to contact Don Schrider. His leghorns have fantastic feather quality. I know leghorns have been worked with a whole lot more than Andalusians but perhaps he might have some information for me.

Does anybody have his address (or email) so I can write him a letter. I'd rather introduce myself that way than calling him out of the blue. If someone has this information, please send me a PM with it. Thank you.

 

[Vamvakas]

Hi Karen, and Vickie,
Do you remember the Wolfdog craze which lasted up until couple of years ago when the not so smart breeders, and owners ended up with terribly fatal attacks, and in two instances that I know of being killed by these so called dogs?
They were crossing the wolves with dogs of aggressive temperaments, and claiming that when the offspring trained properly, they were sweet and docile like bunny rabbits? Insane! Regardless of how much a dog is trained, when the opportunity arises, the true character surfaces, and they do what is in their nature.
Recently, to my horror I've heard that some are now crossing the dogs with coyotes which I think is a fine example of : the art of stupidity....
Lual

There has been new cases in my state about wolfdogs... It's not close to where I live so idc, but I'll break there face if I see one. I'll tell the wolfdog to put his hands up and if he wont listen well..

 

[hellbender]

There has been new cases in my state about wolfdogs... It's not close to where I live so idc, but I'll break there face if I see one. I'll tell the wolfdog to put his hands up and if he wont listen well..

That's funny but I wouldn't even give them a chance to give up. They wouldn't hear the sound of the .22-250 enter their ear, should any of them get past our defenses.

Defenses: On our property and that of a couple friends who own land adjacent to us, Jason and friends have set up several dozen snares, well out from where any of our dogs might follow a yote or wild cross. They have already caught 4 in the past months and I'm hoping for more.

I won't go into detail but in a couple cases, taking them resulted in the death of several more. Everyone killed helps to give stock owners a little peace of mind, but it only takes one to slip through to some un-guarded live stock to cause hundreds or even thousands of dollars in damages, not to mention the emotional toll.

The government is impotent or worse, and seemingly unconcerned about the losses caused by these killing machines because it's the DNR officers who decide if the stock is killed by what predator and if the owner is to get reimbursed by the state so we don't let the DNR know what our success-rate is.

We even set snares and dead-falls on the state park (Kumbrabow) that butts up against us to the south...No safe haven for 'Les Batards!'

 

[thedragonlady]

Ok, so following that thought through... what can I do about it? The standard says that quick feathering is linked to feather quality... unless I'm really misunderstanding it. If it isn't, what can I do to better the quality of my birds' feathers? They seem brittle and easily frayed, though I've never made any attempt to verify it. I don't intentionally go around breaking my birds feathers to test their tensile strength and I don't intentionally rub individual feathers backwards to see how much they can take before the barbicels (or whatever they're called) come detached and stay that way.

Is it diet related or genetic? I'll be watching my early feathering birds to see how they feather out compared to the others and see where it goes from there but if anybody has any idea as to how to make better feathers, I'm all ears.

I feed my Buff Orps a really good diet, coupled with very good year round grazing. I now have uniformly good feather quality. Yes, I have selected for it, but diet plays a HUGE part in growing really good feathering. I furnish people who buy my birds with my feeding and worming schedule. Most follow it. Some who did not in the past, now do. Yardfullorocks is now using it too, and it pleased with the results. It takes good protein and fat, coupled with an absence of parasites, and crowding, to grow good feathers.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

My Orps feather out very fast. At 4 weeks, they are ready to go outside. The fast feathering has not much to do with feather quality though, from what I've seen. Wide tail coverts, and back feathers have to be continually selected for, or you will loose them in a heartbeat. After 8 generations of selection with this trait in mind, I'm finally seeing many more birds mature with good, wide, dense feathers.This is a trait that should be selected for, as it is a bird's waterproofing, that allows it to range, even in bad weather.

Indeed. It also is a protection against treading issues. Moreover, feather quality, the more one studies birds, is one of the primary factors is giving birds that certain je ne sais quoi of finish that makes them so knock-out.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

My Orps feather out very fast. At 4 weeks, they are ready to go outside. The fast feathering has not much to do with feather quality though, from what I've seen. Wide tail coverts, and back feathers have to be continually selected for, or you will loose them in a heartbeat. After 8 generations of selection with this trait in mind, I'm finally seeing many more birds mature with good, wide, dense feathers.This is a trait that should be selected for, as it is a bird's waterproofing, that allows it to range, even in bad weather.

What else would you attribute the tendency to? That is a connection that I made, but doesn't make it right.

There is actually a fast feathering gene vs a slow feathering gene. Then there is a wicked slow feathering gene. This latter is not desirable. In the Barred Rocks, the slow feathering gene is necessary. In many breeds the fast feathering gene is present. Now within the confines of the gene one can select for faster growth, meaning within the spectrum of the slow feathering gene, one could select those that feather the fastest. The same is true for the fast feathering gene. All of the chicks might feather faster that chicks with the slow feathering gene, but among those chicks feathering out some are doing it faster than others, and one could select those birds.

As Dragonlady pointed out, this doesn't impose itself on quality of feather, by which we tend to mean width of feather. When selecting for width of feather, one of the easiest places to train the eye is in the tail or the wing. Look at the main tail feathers, how broad are they? Compare several birds of the same age. Look at the differences in width of feather:



These birds are better insulated, they appear more luxuriously cloaked, and they will weather the breeding season more in tact. I, personally, wouldn't think it would have a direct effect on egg production, unless indirectly via contributing to general stamina.

The thin feathered tragedy in the Barred Rocks is a conundrum to me. However, in trying to draw a (potentially BS) conclusion, I wonder if general preoccupation for perfection of barring did not blind the breeders to width. As Dragonlady mentioned, it can be lost relatively quickly, and if it's happening across the flock, it can be hard to notice. Or, maybe, the impact will not be as immediately obvious. Besides the challenge of the single comb, that thinness of feather is the major deterrent for me with regards to Barred Rocks, I have my hands full trying to pull these Dorkings out of the gutter, I don't want to start trying to select 1/2" feathers into 2" feathers.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I'm thinking I would like to contact Don Schrider. His leghorns have fantastic feather quality. I know leghorns have been worked with a whole lot more than Andalusians but perhaps he might have some information for me.

Does anybody have his address (or email) so I can write him a letter. I'd rather introduce myself that way than calling him out of the blue. If someone has this information, please send me a PM with it. Thank you.

Ask to join the Brown Leghorn page on Facebook. He's on there.