Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[bnjrob]

I really had no idea where to put this, so I'm putting it here. Take a look at this Craigs List add. Leave the person posting alone, they aren't actually the subject! https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/grd/4435544019.html

Here is a chicken being put forth as something special as far as meat. I happen to know of a 'Farm to Table' operation that has invested in breeding stock of Bresse chickens. Why didn't they go to Dorkings? If the bird in the add was typical, they would do better with Dorkings. Or any number of breeds that are already here. But they went with an import. Of course maybe the chef liked Bresse when he was in France.

This was kind of my point when I said the breed clubs aren't using the power of the internet to good. There is a market that is small but it isn't being marketed to. I have no doubt its hard being successful marketing to that niche. However at least with Dorkings, the end product can speak for its self as far as quality. Take a look at YHFs processed birds. Those are very appealing to any foodie. And if they taste anything like the one I had, they are very good. The kind of meat that a chef wants. Now making the chef happy with the cost of that bird is another story. There are however a lot of foodies that more and more are willing to pay for that meat or raise it them selves. No they wont be a breeder, but they provide a USE for the bird.

Producing a quality bird for that market doesn't fall under this thread, but finding a market for our birds and reinvigorating breed clubs maybe does.

For breeds to survive they have to be useful.

Jennifer

Part of the problem is that the term "marketing" is considered a bad thing by many people and it puts people off to think about marketing a product of any kind. Then there is the fact that many people - including the ones that run breed clubs - don't know how to market. Or they don't know how to market for free/on a shoestring and they nix all marketing ideas because they think it will cost a ton of money. Then there is the issue that so many of the "old" poultry people do not understand the value of the internet and are uninterested in having an online presence - especially if it is going to require them to take time to learn how to be computer/internet savvy when they are already busy. I've run up against a good bit of resistance from poultry people about "the internet" - telling me that it is useless, that only kids use it and that isn't the people looking at getting into poultry, it won't work for poultry, etc. Yes, there is a ton of misinformation out there, but the internet is here to stay and it is where people go to find information, so why not be online and be a resource for truthful info? Until the current "geezer-minded" people become more open minded and willing to allow those of us that are computer savvy to be involved in things, or they die and the next generation takes over the breed club admin duties, it will probably be a case of some of us just beating our heads against the wall.

 

[fowlman01]

They are just white chickens Jennifer, but there is a good online story that makes people want them. The Dorkings have one of the best stories of all, but no one is pushing it. Online you just need a good story to make birds popular. If you have a great story and can use Imported in it somewhere you can get big bucks for hatchery quality birds.

Walt

 

[pigsflyacres]

Thanks Walt. That was kind of my point, imported, story, not much to look at. Fad market. I haven't quite figured out how to go about it, but I'm going to figure out a way to start getting Dorkings in front of people who want gourmet meat.

Marketing can be many things. Social media has shown just how powerful a tool the internet can be. Its not going to go away. I'm not a marketing person. But I know someone who is. Not her area of expertise, but I'm going to pick her brains. I've never had to market myself. Just haven't. I can go to shows and have Best in Class, but that doesn't mean that I will have a useful market for my birds. I might have poultry people that want to keep them, but that doesn't give the breed a purpose and reason to survive. Taking them back to their original purpose does. A quality roaster. I really think that is what our breed club should rally around and promote. And not just the Dorking club, but there are others too.

Breeds are about a shape. That shape came from a need for a specific product. Color is icing, not the product.

Jennifer

 

[hellbender]

I really had no idea where to put this, so I'm putting it here. Take a look at this Craigs List add. Leave the person posting alone, they aren't actually the subject! https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/grd/4435544019.html

Here is a chicken being put forth as something special as far as meat. I happen to know of a 'Farm to Table' operation that has invested in breeding stock of Bresse chickens. Why didn't they go to Dorkings? If the bird in the add was typical, they would do better with Dorkings. Or any number of breeds that are already here. But they went with an import. Of course maybe the chef liked Bresse when he was in France.

This was kind of my point when I said the breed clubs aren't using the power of the internet to good. There is a market that is small but it isn't being marketed to. I have no doubt its hard being successful marketing to that niche. However at least with Dorkings, the end product can speak for its self as far as quality. Take a look at YHFs processed birds. Those are very appealing to any foodie. And if they taste anything like the one I had, they are very good. The kind of meat that a chef wants. Now making the chef happy with the cost of that bird is another story. There are however a lot of foodies that more and more are willing to pay for that meat or raise it them selves. No they wont be a breeder, but they provide a USE for the bird.

Producing a quality bird for that market doesn't fall under this thread, but finding a market for our birds and reinvigorating breed clubs maybe does.

For breeds to survive they have to be useful.

Jennifer

This place suits me just fine because I found it! This is so apropos! In the lower part of this valley, a young man with a well-off parent brought in a bunch of those white French Naked Necks (breed name slips me) and he was going to sell these birds for something like 25 bucks each to the restaurant trade in and around this state. I think he did OK for while because, while it might surprise many, there is a great deal of wealth in West Virginia..witness 'The Greenbriar', near White Sulfur Springs, as only one bastion of that old/big money.

In any event, he lost his butt this past Winter...he didn't count on having an 'old fashioned West Virginia Winter' and his only bird housing was some sort large 'tractors' with heavy plastic for protection...and only that!

I'm sorry he got hurt but he should have considered what 'can happen, will happen' in business and especially in the marvelous state of West Virginia, where climatic variations can change weather/temps drastically is only a few feet difference in sea level.

I'll try to find the write-ups he got in some papers when he began the venture.

The truly scary part...I once considered doing the exact same thing on a smaller basis...but I would have had adequate housing!

 

[bmvf]

I have settled on the Delaware breed and hope to buy from Whitmore Farm which is within an hour and a half drive. According to their Delaware page, they breed to the standard and for a quick growing, dual purpose bird. That is exactly what I want. I was wondering if anyone has opinions of the farm and their birds. Anybody else in the PA/MD border to East/Central PA area breeding Delawares?

 

[3riverschick]

In any event, he lost his butt this past Winter...he didn't count on having an 'old fashioned West Virginia Winter' and his only bird housing was some sort large 'tractors' with heavy plastic for protection...and only that!

There wasn't anything "Old fashioned" about winter here in western PA. It was a multiple record breaker.
I left my birds to recoup naturally as the season progresses. They started laying earlier this season but
were still recuperating from the winter so I didn't set any eggs. I didn't want to set eggs from stressed
birds. This last week they finally are back to pre-winter status. The few who weren't laying have started
last week so we are gathering eggs to start our hatching season. Last year our last hatch was April 28th.
Well we may be late but at least all the birds survived the winter. The good news is that the chicks can
go out a bit earlier this year because the weather will be warmer. The not so good news is that altho
Sussex were historically raised year 'round, the best winter layers are hatched in March
Best,
Karen

 

[neopolitancrazy]

I have settled on the Delaware breed and hope to buy from Whitmore Farm which is within an hour and a half drive.  According to their Delaware page, they breed to the standard and for a quick growing, dual purpose bird.  That is exactly what I want.  I was wondering if anyone has opinions of the farm and their birds.  Anybody else in the PA/MD border to East/Central PA area breeding Delawares?

I don't have any experience with Delawares, but my experience with a more rare meat bird (Dorkings,) says you should weigh the birds before buying the marketing spiel.
Best wishes,
Angela

 

[fowlman01]

Thanks Walt. That was kind of my point, imported, story, not much to look at. Fad market. I haven't quite figured out how to go about it, but I'm going to figure out a way to start getting Dorkings in front of people who want gourmet meat.

Marketing can be many things. Social media has shown just how powerful a tool the internet can be. Its not going to go away. I'm not a marketing person. But I know someone who is. Not her area of expertise, but I'm going to pick her brains. I've never had to market myself. Just haven't. I can go to shows and have Best in Class, but that doesn't mean that I will have a useful market for my birds. I might have poultry people that want to keep them, but that doesn't give the breed a purpose and reason to survive. Taking them back to their original purpose does. A quality roaster. I really think that is what our breed club should rally around and promote. And not just the Dorking club, but there are others too.

Breeds are about a shape. That shape came from a need for a specific product. Color is icing, not the product.

Jennifer

Great idea Jennifer. I am very serious when I say the Dorkings have a story that can charm the money right out of peoples pockets if it is told right. Even though your friend does not know about chickens, she knows how promotion works. Llamas, Emu's, pot bellied pigs etc etc. The story is what sells....kind of strange to me, but I have seen a lot online.

w.

 

[fowlman01]

I have settled on the Delaware breed and hope to buy from Whitmore Farm which is within an hour and a half drive. According to their Delaware page, they breed to the standard and for a quick growing, dual purpose bird. That is exactly what I want. I was wondering if anyone has opinions of the farm and their birds. Anybody else in the PA/MD border to East/Central PA area breeding Delawares?

Do they have a web page where we could see the birds?

Walt

 

[pigsflyacres]

I've been running in and out all day. Get started and then the skies open up and I stop for a bit.

Anyway back to the purpose of this thread. Part of helping people find stock, is often helping them figure out what they want to do and narrowing the choices for them. This takes some education. Its certainly helpful if you can send people to a breed site to help them in their decision making process. Problem is that most breed clubs don't have a lot of useful information. But that's ok, because this thread is full of useful information!

Anyway there are people who are looking for production qualities in stock. They don't need commercial production, but they want a useful bird. Its one thing to say that standard bred birds bred to type can produce, another entirely to prove it. So it would be nice to have breeders that could actually show a birds productivity. We have this with some strains, but I don't think enough. I think breed clubs should start putting more effort into educating new poultry people on how to assess their breeds productivity. Not rallying the troops to get a new color variety in the standard. Help them learn how to be good poultry breeders no matter what scale they do it on. Not everyone wants a cornish cross or a Red Sex link. It just depends on their priorities.

I also think there is nothing wrong with selling to people who just want to keep a few birds. The reason they go to the feed store and hatcheries isn't just because they want a color, mostly its because they only want/can have hens. Really I'd be more than happy to move on any POL pullets that didn't make the grade as breeders and were surplus. If I have chicks with questionable parentage (hey there is always a rebel that finds its way where it doesn't belong), I'd move them to some one who only wanted a few birds. I'd even tell them if they end up with 'Roos' I'd take them back. I'll eat them. Because I want new poultry people to see the difference between quality and hatchery birds. They might move into the more serious ranks because of it.

I am an eternal optimist about people even when I'm being jaded.

Jennifer