Heritage Large Fowl - Phase II

[ChickenCanoe]

I don't show but I would prefer a judge that knows and judges to the standard. Without that, most breeds would become homogenous and shaped the same.

 

[bnjrob]

I don't show but I would prefer a judge that knows and judges to the standard. Without that, most breeds would become homogenous and shaped the same.

And yet most people don't realize this because they only see the feather color, not the shape.

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
I asked that same question, LOL! Got a lot of bluster in response.

The judge was Amanda Clark. There's no Amanda Clark listed in the latest APA directory. I'm assuming she is now Amanda Stallman. I thought she was an excellent judge. One of the Java entries in that show had placed very well at a local show a few weeks earlier. (Not my bird.) She did not rank it as highly as some of us expected. We were surprised, so we asked her about it later. She went over the birds with us in detail. She was paying more attention to depth of chest and keel length than we were, and she had a point. It was good to get that additional perspective.

I asked her point blank why she didn't disqualify my birds, because they didn't have yellow soles. She said you can't always tell so she gave them the benefit of the doubt. Turned out she made the right call. When I eventually culled those birds their soles and skin had a definite pale yellow tinge after they were bled out. I could have sworn they were white. Lesson learned.

 

[gjensen]

I would not expect a judge to know every detail on every breed. That is unrealistic. I expect that many judges generally knows each class, and is most familiar with what they see the most of. Also what they have the most interest in. I would see it complimentary if I saw a judge work through the birds with the Standard accessible. There is a lot of details to have memorized. A lot of important details. I am sure some are impressive with what they have memorized, but there is a lot.

It is good to hear an honest and cordial discussion after the judging. I think these conversations are informative.

 

[fowlman01]

I asked that same question, LOL! Got a lot of bluster in response.

The judge was Amanda Clark. There's no Amanda Clark listed in the latest APA directory. I'm assuming she is now Amanda Stallman.  I thought she was an excellent judge. One of the Java entries in that show had placed very well at a local show a few weeks earlier. (Not my bird.) She did not rank it as highly as some of us expected. We were surprised, so we asked her about it later. She went over the birds with us in detail.  She was paying more attention to depth of chest and keel length than we were, and she had a point. It was good to get that additional perspective.

I asked her point blank why she didn't disqualify my birds, because they didn't have yellow soles. She said you can't always tell so she gave them the benefit of the doubt. Turned out she made the right call.  When I eventually culled those birds their soles and skin had a definite pale yellow tinge after they were bled out. I could have sworn they were white. Lesson learned.

Amanda is a fairly new judge but she is very good. I have known her since she was 12.

Walt

 

[3riverschick]

No matter what we are breeding and/or showing, there is a unique set of challenges. Some here are working with Delaware, and there are unique color challenges with them. A couple are trying Columbian colored birds. That is a difficult and challenging color. It has long been understood that it was. The breeds represented here are not in the best shape, not in this variety. I could go on forever about the unique hang ups my breed and color variety has. There is a reason there are not any consistently good colored birds in black tailed buff. Buff is a struggle all of it's own.

I guess that is the fun in it. This seams to require some want to, and the ability and desire to solve problems. They are there to be solved. It certainly requires patience. It takes a time to sort through the things we talk about.

It is good to hear the discussion of the people actually breeding for improvement, these rare breeds.

Columbian is challenging if one is working with an eb ( Brown) based variety. It is not if one is working with an eWh based variety ( Delaware, Light Sussex, Columbian Marans { these are the only 3 breeds I know of that are eWh based Columbians}) because eWh does not require color balancing of the underfluff. Tho the Delaware has the addition challenge of the barring gene.
Best,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

Ugh, cushions. I wish there were more antique photographs of Javas to see just how many had cushions. It would help to get an idea of whether we're fighting just the last century of breeding, or if this is something they have been fighting all along - like the red and gold feathers that pop out.

All of ours tend to have looser feathering no matter which bloodline they come from. There are worse things than loose feathering. These darn squiggly combs in the McGraws make me nuts. And the McGraw birds are flightier than the Urch birds and make me want to scream. The other day all 8 hens and the cock in one pen crammed themselves into the nestbox to hide while I refilled their feed. eye roll

I asked Bob Blosl one time how I could breed closer feathers on my Light Sussex. He replied that I should breed for 25 more eggs a year from my hens. When I did that, the closer feathering would follow on the coattails of increasing the egg productivity.
Best,
Karen

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Columbian is challenging if one is working with an eb ( Brown) based variety. It is not if one is working with an eWh based variety ( Delaware, Light Sussex, Columbian Marans { these are the only 3 breeds I know of that are eWh based Columbians}) because eWh does not require color balancing of the underfluff. Tho the Delaware has the addition challenge of the barring gene.
Best,
Karen

I'm finding Delaware pretty challenging, color wise. I've got enough going on with the color that I'm not too focused on fluff yet. But concern about messing up the fluff does make a handy excuse when people tell me to cross in some other breed of Columbian color to help.

 

[gjensen]

I'm finding Delaware pretty challenging, color wise. I've got enough going on with the color that I'm not too focused on fluff yet. But concern about messing up the fluff does make a handy excuse when people tell me to cross in some other breed of Columbian color to help.

You do not need to cross into another Columbian. That will give you even more grief.


Please be concerned with the under color (fluff) though. I do not think that you should have any, but you will find some useful off and on.

Speaking of color, you had some questions about red bleeding through? Is that right?

 

[gjensen]

Columbian is challenging if one is working with an eb ( Brown) based variety. It is not if one is working with an eWh based variety ( Delaware, Light Sussex, Columbian Marans { these are the only 3 breeds I know of that are eWh based Columbians}) because eWh does not require color balancing of the underfluff. Tho the Delaware has the addition challenge of the barring gene.
Best,
Karen

Columbian is a challenge. It is a challenging color. I will let those that know this color better comment specifically. It is one thing to know what it should be, and another to put it into practice. It does seam that you are not balancing the under color, but balancing black in general and specifically, which the under color plays a part. The under color is an indicator of sorts.

There used to be someone that commented on this thread occasionally that knew this color well.

It is a mistake to say that the others are not challenging. They are, and as much. The Delaware could possibly be considered more challenging. It has some unique challenges, and could be considered for double mating. It will be hard to get both the females and males right. Regardless, all of these offer unique challenges.

Much of it has to do with how far along the variety is in a particular breed. It is one thing to create a color pattern. It is another to perfect it. That is where the work is. If what we have is in good shape, much of the work has been done for us. If what we have is in poor shape, we have a long road ahead.

A good example is the Java breeders here. They have challenges with the color black. It would seam simple, but the breed and variety is neglected. There is a lot of work sorting through it all.