Heritage Turkeys - a few questions for the fair

[Engteacher]

We're back from the fair where our BBB took third place. The only turkeys at the fair were market pens of BBB and BBW.

Sadly, there were no breeding pens entered for turkeys. We've been trying to come up with a plan for next year so we can bring a breeding trio, but we need some help. The rules for 4H state that poultry must be from this year's hatch. So, for this fair, all birds had to hatch on or after January 1st, 2012. When I look around the web for heritage turkeys, they are all available no sooner than April or even May. That doesn't give us enough time to grow out the birds enough to enter.

- When do turkeys start to lay in the spring?
-When do they stop for the season?
-Does it vary by breed (we're thinking Beltsville Small White or Bourbon Red but are open)
-Can you extend their season with artificial light like with chickens?
-Any other suggestions for us as we think about the 2013 fair? We are open to purchasing mature stock this summer/fall in order to have turkeys for next year's fair if we could trick them into giving us some early eggs to hatch.

Thanks!

 

[erinszoo]

I'm not sure about the laying schedule as we are just on our first year with breeding birds but are you sure about your fair rules? Our fair rules state that they have to be from the year but that means the year between one fair and the next not just the physical year. I know our turkey laid eggs in November/December last year but some people on here had hatching eggs in February. We got our heritage white hollands in March because the hatchery had an early hatch out.

Worst case is that you get them in April and show what you have. If the rules are what you say then no one else will have turkeys grown more than yours either.

 

[Engteacher]

Here's what it says in the premium book:

[FONT=Arial Narrow,Italic]Requirements:[/FONT]
- Poultry exhibited must be of this year's hatch (except
breeding pigeons).
- All birds except waterfowl and pigeons must have a
health certificate.
- A numbered leg band must also identify all birds.
- All birds exhibited in breeding classes must be
purebred and will be judged according to the APA
Standard of Perfection as a guide.​

-
[FONT=Arial Narrow,Bold]NO TESTING OF BIRDS AT THE FAIR.[/FONT]

 

[Narragansett]

You are beginning to experience the incompetence of the 4h system and how it has little or no understanding of the nature of exhibition poultry life cycles or constraints. Their rules in no way encourage the betterment of stock for either exhibition or commercial purposes. They are extremely inconsistent and subjective. Often their rules exist for no other reason than to create a misguided sense of responsibility in the children. Rules simply for the sake of having rules, not for any good purpose relating to improving the quality of the birds or the competition itself. There are some hatcheries which do hatch a little earlier, but my advice is to stop wasting time playing around with 4h nonsense, and enter real shows, those sanctioned by the APA, where you will meet sensible knowledgeable breeders who will help you understand how to breed good birds if that is your goal, or to simply enter a meaningful competition, not one in which everyone wins just for showing up.

 

[Engteacher]

You have a good point. My other option would be to work to change that hatch date rule for turkeys so it's the same as breeding pigeons. I imagine any change would take years to implement, but I'll check in to the rules for other states. I know there is some variation from state to state. Meanwhile, we'll start making plans for next year and be on the look-out for mature breeding stock for sale to get a good foundation for the future. Our son is most interested in Beltsville Small White and Bourbon Reds.

 

[A.T. Hagan]

Engteacher,

What I would do is ignore the sweeping generalizations some folks will make and simply contact the relevant people at your county fair who are responsible for poultry. Speak with them about how to go about showing birds. I suspect what is going on here is a simple misunderstanding.

The premium book for your fair should have the names and contact information for the folks you need to speak with. They'll probably be happy to help you out. It's what they are there for.

Edited to add:

Here is some contact info I copied out of the Dakota County Fair premium book that might help you.

1. For quesons regarding the 4H Division contact 4H Staff at the Dakota County Extension Office, (651) 480-7702.

DAKOTA COUNTY 4H STAFF
Anja Johnson, 4H Program Coordinator, [email protected]
Kathy Johnson, 4H Program Coordinator, [email protected]
Carissa Akpore, 4H Program Coordinator, [email protected]


I'm presuming you're in Dakota county. If you're in Washington county they should have the same info in their fair books.

 

[Engteacher]

We are in Washington County, but thank you for tracking that down. My guess would be any change in hatch date would need to come though the state 4H. I looked at the State Fair entry requirements and they have the exact rules as Washington County's premium book. It won't take much to find out who to contact, so I'll start checking. The hatch date only makes sense for market pen since they fill out so fast, but for breeding we just need more time.

Thanks for the info and contacts. I'm sure these people could direct me, too.

 

[A.T. Hagan]

I just knew I'd guess wrong on the county. OK, here's the link to the Washington county 4-H:

http://www.extension.umn.edu/county/template/index.aspx?countyID=84

I'm sure someone there can get you to who you need to speak with fairly quickly.

FWIW, in both the Washingon and Dakota county fairs premium books I noted

- All birds will be judged using the American Standard of Perfection as a guide.

Minnesota being a major turkey producing state I would imagine they are going to take turkey showing seriously. There will be someone who can answer your questions for you. I suspect you are right about there being a difference between market and breeder showing.

Edited to add: I believe page three of the state fair livestock book has the contact info you need.

http://www.mnstatefair.org/_assets/pdf/competition/livestock_pb.pdf

 

[Engteacher]

Okay.
I sent off two emails to my county folks raising the issue and asking for contact people at the state level. The rules for State Fair Open Class Poultry are different than the 4H rules for competition. My son knows a few old time breeders who are very involved in breeding at the national level and will be showing at the State Fair and will get their input on this breeding trio problem hatch date problem.

I'll let you know as we navigate these waters.

Dawn

 

[Narragansett]

Good luck with that. Breeding turkeys has been around a lot longer than 4h. If they haven't gotten the hang of adjusting their rules to accomodate the turkey life cycle by now, I don't hold out much hope that a single request will educate them now. Being in such a large turkey producing state only supports my point. With all of the knowledge at their finger tips, they still haven't allowed any of it to sink in. You are lucky though, because one of the country's premier turkey breeder/exhibitors lives in MN. Contact Duane Urch to find out about how to exhibit turkeys the right way, and save yourself a lot of frustration wading through the 4h nonsense. If you insist, you might want to educate them that breeding age turkeys are not even competitive size until their second year. This is for Standard breeds. The breeding stock for BB breeds is a whole other ballgame, and consists of several strains which when combined produce the terminal cross BB bird. This is an oversimplification, but even that may be too much for most 4h adminstrators to comprehend. Again, it's no secret, and if they haven't understood it by now, don't hold your breath.