Hey Katy

[herfrds]

Thought since I didn't care to high jack the vegans thread, I was wondering about starting our own thread concerning the raising of meat and discuss the falsehoods posted about the AG industry here.


What always upsets me is the people that post the lies that we treat our animals terribly. If this was true would we be outside in -30 degree weather checking cows and feeding hay?
Slogging through knee deep mud to get a new born into a warm dry barn?

How about calling the vet out for a twisted uterus in a cow and helping the vet by holding it up so he could sew it back together after the c-section?
If we didn't care would we be hauling water into this cow's pen and thawing colostrum out for the calf?
I can go on and on.

I for one am sick and tired of being lumped in with that 0.0001% of people who do not take care of their animals.

 

[halo]

And nearly every single person talking that crap is a hypocrite, either still eating beef, or pork,or wearing leather, or eating dairy. Theres lots of cattle farmers near me; across the street is a herd of nearly 200. They are so friendly the owners get mobbed when they go in the fields with them.

Dont you know good news is never "news", only bad. No one wants to hear the good, only the bad. I feel for you.

 

[Kelly G]

I sure would love to raise my own chicken and cows for eating. I could ensure a great life with a dignified end.

 

[herfrds]

I just get so sick of the lies.

Farrowing crates for sows. Now look at the people trying to stop the use of those. Had neighbors up north who ran a farrow to finish operation who would have loved to have had those. No piglets getting squashed by the sow or even killed by that odd sow.
We picked up some pigs from them and they had a sow charge us, luckily they had hot wire around the pens.
No pigs to sell no money.

Veal calves. I admit it, I like a good piece of veal.
Had a friend get on my case about the way veal calves are raised. Guess what some of those calves live in better housing then some people. They have a better life then a lot of animals.

All you ever hear about is that 0.0001%.

The yelling of cruelty over the guys using a forklift to moved some downed cows. Guess they didn't have the sling or loader tractor to pick them up.
Once a cow decides to go down that is it. There is no way of getting them up except using a piece of heavy equipment.
ever try to roll a cow by hand? Go for it. You can't.

 

[Katy]

herfrds....I couldn't agree with you more. They just don't understand nor will they ever since for the most all they know is what they see in the news and we both know what they see is far from the norm.

I'm sure if they saw us using the hip clamp hooked onto the feed bucket on a down cow they'd think we're being cruel, but like you say if she stays down she's dead.....use the hip clamp or a sling and she's got a chance.

Just seems sometimes that no matter what we say they have their minds made up and nothing is going to change it. I think over time as people are even more generations removed from agriculture and the farming and ranching life it will only get worse.

 

[hennyannie]

Same thing with the Utube videos they are showing of animals being injured and killed at rodeos. I am 35 and have been going to rodeos all of my life and can remember only one horse being gore by a bull in that time. I have tried but cannot remember any other injured animals. I guess those video people were in the right place at the right time because they have plenty of videos. They are also showing the forklift thing non-stop on the asacp commericals.

 

[GallusGal]

I think a lot of it has to do with perspective, to be honest. The average joe does not know much about livestock husbandry: they just know what looks pleasant vs. what looks bad. It is thus very easy for an AR group to take footage of something like a pig confined in a farrowing crate, to use your example, and not give a context to it - imply that farmers do it because they just love confining pigs like that because they're mean spirited, evil people. That isn't right, because it is misleading. Farrowing crates exist for a reason: they allow a larger number of hogs to be safely raised in a smaller space, as confined sows tend to accidentally crush piglets. The crate markedly reduces those losses.

However, the argument could equally be made that pigs given more room do not tend to crush their young; having worked with wild and domesticated pigs in non-production settings (ie. zoos and sanctuaries), they are attentive, careful, protective mothers who do just about anything to KEEP their young from harm when given the space to reasonably do so. The crushing seems to be directly the result of the level of confinement. Unfortunately, said level of confinement is pretty much required of anyone wanting to make a living rather than someone wanting a few hobby hogs to raise and butcher for their own family due to current demands for meat consumption in the US. It is also pretty hard to stay competative in the market if others are using methods that allow them higher production if you do not.

I have been a vegan for eleven years and ideologically (as opposed to due to welfare concerns) oppose animal consumption. HOWEVER, I am also extremely bothered by the level of dishonesty I have seen in some animal rights campaigning. I also think it is totally inappropriate to target farmers; target practices one finds questionable, fine, but don't suggest all farmers are depraved animal abusers based on a few high profile instances (ie. the infamous chicken stomping video). TBH I have never met a farmer who didn't find such instances extremely offensive and outrageous; aligning all farmers with a few bad apples is about as fair as aligning all animal rights/welfare advocates with radical groups that burn and vandalize buildings.

 

[debilorrah]

I admire you guys that have a fully functional farm and know what you are doing. I am a bit green with envy too. Every post from you guys is a learning experience for me. I think that anyone who is NOT in your indistry needs to keep their mouths shut until they know as much as you do, and since you have been at it all your lives, that would be never.

Just MHO

 

[herfrds]

GallusGal we lost a calf this spring. It was cold outside when it was born. I put him in our warming box and after a few hours took him out and put him in the pen with the cow. He was standing and nursing. It was 3am.
left a note for my DH and went to bed.
after I woke up DH asked me how the calf had been at 3am. Told him fine up and sucked.
Calf was dead.
Cow laid on him trying to keep him warm.
Pigs will do the same thing. DH used to raise pigs too and had lost some to sows that laid on them.
I know about those groups. They were cutting fences through Wyoming a number of years ago.


hennyannie In all the years I have attended rodeos the only ones I have seen getting hurt are the riders.
Only heard of one horse dying at the rodeo arena I attended and it was a fluke accident. 1 loss in over 30 years of rodeos being held there.

 

[debilorrah]

Quote:

That is sad about the calf. We are just starting a farm/ranch, and have decided after alot of feedback, and me reading all yours and Katy's posts that we need to start out small and not with cattle. We are going to breed our goats first - we have two bucks and are going to purchase two does, plan to keep them in seperate pens except for breeding. Is this too much at first? We want to learn all we can about their care, breeding, how to do everything, etc., before we expand a little at a time.