HOA issue

[Gosanke]

This is why HOAs are such ******** in most cases.
**** sure gt your hearing
If you loses, start filing nuisnace complaints on every barking dog you hear and outside cat that walks into your yard.

LOL!!!

 

[Gosanke]

LOL
Ya throw a temper tantrum and take it out on all your neighbors if you dont get your way.
That will make things all better not to mention how pleasant life there will be after pissing off the hoa and everyone around you.
Great call

I am sure it was meant as a joke. If they vote against me, there is no point of being sore loser.

 

[bantamrooster]

I am sure it was meant as a joke.   If they vote against me, there is no point of being sore loser.

Ya i would hope so but never know. There are a lot of people that do think that way and there will be others in the future that read that and think its a good idea.
Mostly i posted that so they might stop and think before being stupid.

 

[Fluffyserama]

Find out if there is anything against keeping poultry in your protective covenants. They seem to have given you a citation for keeping livestock, so find out what your HA defines as livestock. HO A's can change the definition of words and what they encompass to suit their needs, so what may seem to say one thing may not be true according to your HO A's definitions. All definitions should all be recorded and accessible to home owners.

Also find out what your HOA has the power to levy fines over. In our HOA there are fine-able offenses and non fine-able offenses, but that's not obvious at a casual reading. The way its written makes it seem like they have more power than they really do. The cannot fine you for a non dangerous nuisance animal, but they can issue warnings to appease neighbors. If the animal affects the health and safety of the neighborhood they can issue fines

 

[speckledhen]

Why people believe that a dog barking is not nuisance noise, I have no idea. A dog barks all night long sometimes but a rooster rarely crows all night and will only if disturbed by predators or lights outside the window, stuff like that. To me, a loud dog is much worse than any rooster could be. They just think "farm animal", aka "food animal", and that skews the way they see chickens, regardless of the fact that many folks keep house chickens as pets and chickens can learn their names, recognize over 100 different people, etc. But, then, living in South Korea, my son has to listen to the down-the-street butcher shop dispatch dogs for food, so there you go; a dog is a food animal in Korea. Different cultures and all.

People can be so narrow-minded about chickens, especially when they already believe it's beneath them to live near one or even hear one. Couple that with the desire to force their opinions on other people and you have the perfect HOA president or board member. The same folks move to the country, believing it to be quiet. They always get a rude awakening. My older son's HOA sends him a letter if his trashcan is in the wrong place. I'd never put up with that crap.

 

[MeepBeep]

I hear you but your reasoning miss out due of process.

HoA 'rules' are private civil contracts, and are thus not matters of criminal law, thus there is no guarantee of due process upon enforcement...

I think the point is being overlooked here, the HoA simply sent a letter telling asking for the remove the of the chickens, no where does the clipped portion of the rules state that the HoA can't first send a letter asking you to comply with what they believe is a violation prior to actually taking official action and having the hearing to 'force' you to comply... In fact I'll bet most HoA issues are dealt with similarly with just a letter asking for compliance prior to holding a hearing and forcing compliance... This first step of sending a letter to comply is very customary and if the case is dragged into court it's actually a brownie point because is shows the judge that there was a civil attempt to resolve the issue prior to escalating it to the courts... The same is likely to happen here with the board if there is a hearing called, the issuance of the letter shows there was an attempt by the HoA to solve the problem without a hearing and it automatically puts the OP in a negative light in front of the board when a hearing is called... I know that might not sound all peaches and cream but that is reality...

The letter the OP received is essentially a cease and desist order similar to a warning a police officer might give before actually returning and issuing a ticket 10 days later...

And to make it clear I detest HoA with a passion and will never live in an area governed by them, heck it's bad enough living in many small municipalities that essentially become HoA nowadays... I'm not defending the HoA but the reality is they hold the upper hand and when you moved into the community you 'accepted' their authority to dictate what you can do in your own house/yard...

 

[Gosanke]

Find out if there is anything against keeping poultry in your protective covenants. They seem to have given you a citation for keeping livestock, so find out what your HA defines as livestock. HO A's can change the definition of words and what they encompass to suit their needs, so what may seem to say one thing may not be true according to your HO A's definitions. All definitions should all be recorded and accessible to home owners.

Also find out what your HA has the power to levy fines over. In our HA there are fine-able offenses and non fine-able offenses, but that's not obvious at a casual reading. The way its written makes it seem like they have more power than they really do. The cannot fine you for a non dangerous nuisance animal, but they can issue warnings to appease neighbors. If the animal affects the health and safety of the neighborhood they can issue fines

my coop and run are super clean. And they are at least 60 ft from any neighbor dwelling. I built the coop with double walls and took precaution in advance to prevent any offense such as smell or noises. I seriously doubted they can come up with any evidence to support nuisance claim.

Turkeys/chickens or domesticated fowl are considered poultry and not livestock. The term “livestock” includes cattle, sheep, horses, goats, and other domestic animals ordinarily raised or used on the farm. I am not farming. But you are right, it's based on what the definition of livestock in CC&R. I will find out.

I have city approval and already passed the city inspection so I am optimistic that I have a good case.

the letter came from the property manager and he sounds like a clueless who just wanted to flex his muscles.

Steve

 

[Gosanke]

Why people believe that a dog barking is not nuisance noise, I have no idea. A dog barks all night long sometimes but a rooster rarely crows all night and will only if disturbed by predators or lights outside the window, stuff like that. To me, a loud dog is much worse than any rooster could be. They just think "farm animal", aka "food animal", and that skews the way they see chickens, regardless of the fact that many folks keep house chickens as pets and chickens can learn their names, recognize over 100 different people, etc. But, then, living in South Korea, my son has to listen to the down-the-street butcher shop dispatch dogs for food, so there you go; a dog is a food animal in Korea. Different cultures and all.

People can be so narrow-minded about chickens, especially when they already believe it's beneath them to live near one or even hear one. Couple that with the desire to force their opinions on other people and you have the perfect HOA president or board member. The same folks move to the country, believing it to be quiet. They always get a rude awakening. My older son's HOA sends him a letter if his trashcan is in the wrong place. I'd never put up with that crap.

for the sake of argument, could it be that dogs can be trained not to bark vs rooster automatically crow during dawn hours while city dwellers are sleeping? yes, chickens got a raw deal because they are often perceive as food source and not man's best friend or a family pet.

Steve

 

[speckledhen]

for the sake of argument, could it be that dogs can be trained not to bark vs rooster automatically crow during dawn hours while city dwellers are sleeping? yes, chickens got a raw deal because they are often perceive as food source and not best man's friend or a family pet.

Steve

Weeellll, most folks simply do not train their dogs. I've rarely seen anyone, especially in the country, make any effort at all to train them, much less to keep them at home.

Roosters can technically crow any time of the day (and night, if disturbed by something), however, I do feel a dog who is inclined to sound off all the time is more of a disturbance than a rooster because a rooster generally will not crow at night. I've listened to dogs around me bark-bark-bark all night long and wonder why on earth their own owners don't shut them up-I'd be nuts if my own dog was barking under my window all night. But, most folks around here refuse to allow the dogs into the house so they're either roaming loose or out on some chain. Meanwhile, my roosters *and currently, I have 5 adults and several male youngsters coming along* are silent other than quiet whines and growls because they are disturbed by the dogs barking! I have a baby monitor in the barn so I hear what they do at night. It's there in case of human predator intrusion, mainly.

And Steve, I 100% agree that chickens get a raw deal!

 

[Fluffyserama]

Find out what the penalties are for non-compliance.
The garbage can example is good. We are told what side of the drive way we can have cans on. It's classified as an offense the HOA cannot levy fines for, BUT every time we set our cans out in a non compliant manor the garbage company charges us an extra 2 dollars because the maintenance company has a deal with them and the garbage company gets to keep the money generated. The HOA cannot put a tax lean against our house if we don't pay the fines, but the garbage company can stop service ( this is super stupid to me since I don't want any ones trash service interrupted for something so trivial)

If I keep chickens in my yard in a manor approved by the county it's a non fine able offense, and I just get a nasty letter telling me to stop, but with no power behind it. If I let the chickens free range or they get lose and they poop in my neighbors yard, and the neighbor complains. The chickens become a potential vector for disease and after being given warning to get rid of the chickens I can be fined for keeping nuisance animals dangerous to the community. If I don't pay the fine they can put a tax lean on my house and if I don't pay that I could lose the house. That's a worst case scenario, but its happened with other HOA's. I don't think it would happen in my community since there are at least a dozen houses with chickens in the back and no one has been fined for keeping them in the past 15 years, but it's a little worm of fear in my head that will stay until chickens are reclassified by the HOA