Horse Talk

[abigalerose]

Oh I'll ride June with saddle and at least a halter and reins if I go somewhere else. I fully intend on training her like any other horse (except maybe without the bit but I haven't decided on that yet), I want to be able to ride her with a saddle and everything, especially if I have friend or family who wants to ride her. and I've watched that video so many times, I love it

As for Phoenix, that's not why he ended up in the kill pen. Him and 8 other mustangs belonged to a firefighter who got injured on the job and decided to sell them due to not being able to take care of them with his injury. I'm assuming that he sold them cheap, becuase someone came and picked them all up, promised them a good home, but then after he left he informed him he was taking them straight to the kill pen. The other mustangs are at the rescue still, being trained. Phoenix was one of two that were already broke.

 

[chicken19]

It's not a problem for you, perhaps, but are we forgetting that Phoenix was pulled out of a kill pen? That may be part of what put him there.

Why does it matter? It's her horse after all and she can do what she wants with him.
If he works well under a hackamore or bitless bridle-- Thats fine. They are no limitations to what you can do with bitless.

 

[abigalerose]

I think she was just saying that some people won't want a horse that rides bitless is all. But that didn't have anything to do with why he was there, he was just sold to the wrong person, who never had any intentions of even taking the horses home before they took them to the kill pen.
And as for never knowing what might happen and not being able to keep the horses one day, well a horse inst "just a horse" to me. I couldn't imagine ever parting with June, but if there were some emergency where I just had to, I can think of 5 different people off the top of my head who would happily take her for me, and if none of those worked out I'm sure I could figure out something. I'm not worried in the slightest about ever having to sell her. And as for Phoenix, I'm starting to get attached to him now too, and if I had to get rid of him for some reason, I'm not even legally allowed to sell him. The only thing I could do is take him back to the rescue. But I still plan on training normally, just haven't decided how I feel about the bit yet. I know there's people all for the bit and people who are totally against it, I'm somewhere in the middle I guess

 

[Bunnylady]

Quote: For the horse, it becomes a problem because horses with great, honking holes in their training are harder to place, and more likely to get neglected (or worse). All kinds of situations can come up which could put this animal beyond her ability to control its destiny; I feel it is part of our responsibility to the animals to do whatever is in our power to make that eventuality as pleasant as we can. Making the animal as versatile as possible ups the odds that someone won't find it useless and valueless. For the OP, she is talking about a future for herself in horses, training horses and riders, so she needs to be familiar with the tack, know how to use it effectively, and how to train horses to accept it and teach others how to use it.

Incidentally, bitless bridles aren't necessarily "kinder" just because they don't include a hunk of metal in the mouth. A lot of them rely on leverage, and can put quite a bit of pressure on a horse's face. A piece of tack is only as kind as the hands using it, and there are some, bitless or otherwise, that should never be in uneducated hands.

 

[abigalerose]

I'm thinking I will probably make sure she knows how to use one, just so she knows, but when I ride her I'm not going to mess with it most of the time. I don't think they are cruel or anything, I just like that when I'm riding, the horse is doing what I ask without me having to have added pressure in its mouth. I guess it's just a personal preference thing, I like the "all natural" route for a lot of things, tackless riding, mustangs, growing your own food, etc. etc.
The more "natural" the better, when I think about, say, Indians, riding horses a long time ago, they probably didn't use any, or much tack, and I just like the sound of that. If that makes any sense? Lol

 

[chicken19]

Quote: For the horse, it becomes a problem because horses with great, honking holes in their training are harder to place, and more likely to get neglected (or worse). All kinds of situations can come up which could put this animal beyond her ability to control its destiny; I feel it is part of our responsibility to the animals to do whatever is in our power to make that eventuality as pleasant as we can. Making the animal as versatile as possible ups the odds that someone won't find it useless and valueless. For the OP, she is talking about a future for herself in horses, training horses and riders, so she needs to be familiar with the tack, know how to use it effectively, and how to train horses to accept it and teach others how to use it.

Incidentally, bitless bridles aren't necessarily "kinder" just because they don't include a hunk of metal in the mouth. A lot of them rely on leverage, and can put quite a bit of pressure on a horse's face. A piece of tack is only as kind as the hands using it, and there are some, bitless or otherwise, that should never be in uneducated hands.
If Pheonix doesn't want to wear accept the bit, then that's fine. June can be trained to wear a bit and it would make her more versatile but if abigalerose doesn't want to do that, that's not a bad thing.
Also as long as abigalerose is properly training June, 'big, honking holes' should not be present.
A horse ridden bit-less is not any different from a horse wearing a bit. It's like the difference between wearing a western saddle or a english one on a trail ride.

I know that bitless bridles and hackamore aren't always kinder. But I do believe that certain pieces of tack should never be used on a horse. Kind hands or not.
Mechanical hackamores are good for trail rides but should only be used by experienced riders with soft hands.
Bosals are perfectly humane in my mind. Though they can apply a lot of pressure to the nose.
Riding in a halter should only be attempted if your horse is easy to turn.
This is the kind of bitless bridle I like. It works a bit like a side pull but without the extra leverage of the criss-crossed straps.
I do agree that if abigalerose wants to train horses for other people and give riding lessons se should learn to use a bit and train a horse to use one but if she doesn't want to it's her decision.
Thanks,
chicken19

 

[abigalerose]

Oh, I didn't mean I wanted to give people riding lessons, I just meant if I had a friend/family member (that already knows how to ride) that wanted to ride on her.

 

[I Love Layers]

I want to ride bitless. And eventually (way down the road) tackless. I suppose I could spend a month getting her use to the bit so she knows how to use it, but I guess there's nothing saying that I have to use it when I ride. But maybe I'll just skip the bit all together. I don't have any intentions of her ever being anything but my trail hose. And Phoenix is 10 and doesn't take a bit and it's not a problem.

It'd be best to start with a bit, then move down to a hackmore, then to neck rope, then tackless. It depends on the horse. We have a horse that could be ridden tackles at 9 years old. My mare still needs a bit and she's 13. So don't get your hopes up, it just depends on the horse

 

[abigalerose]

Ohh, and, I rode both my horses today. That means June got her first ride. She did pretty good too. At first it was a little rough, becuase every time I sat on her she walked off which is totally out of character for her, but after some tough love and perseverance I got her to stand still, and then turned her both directions, then walked forward, just around a little bit in the round pen of course, but it was awesome! And I made a bit of a break through with Phoenix too. When I first got him home he refused to go any direction but backwards, but today we rode all the way to the other end of one of the fields (about 20 acres) and back, I did have to hop off once and manually turn him around becuase he was being weird, but it was still major progress. I'm so proud of both of them! And both rides were bareback with a halter and rope reins, just the way I like it lol

 

[abigalerose]

By tackless I mean with only a neck rope. But yeah, I'm going start with saddle and bridle then work my way back, but for her first few times learning to turn off leg pressure I'm doing it bareback