Horses and money

[abigalerose]

x2 in addition to you future, it could also cost your grandparents their future and even their farm...

I know you keep repeating that your clients are all 'reasonable' and would never sue, but repeating it does not make it so, it only takes one exception or change of heart...

I meant repeating myself about having training facilities and barns near me. Not about the people being reasonable, I realize that that can change at any moment. But you said you bet all the reputable barns have insurance, and I'm saying there aren't any. I know that there are big barns and training facilities in MO, just not in my area. So really there's nothing to compare to because none of the trainers within an 80 mile or so radius have liability or insurance. It is something I might look into some day, but what if I train these two horses that I have here right now and decide I don't like doing this? Should I really run out today and buy insurance when these horses will be gone in 2-3 weeks? If I'm going to continue this, and once I'm on my own property (which will be in two weeks, tops) then I will research it more and talk to some local people who can really help me figure out what I need to do insurance wise.

And as for my goal, I don't have a specific goal in mind.
I wouldn't mind continuing training for the next however many years, but I also wouldn't mind exploring other options. I don't want to be the next Clinton Anderson or anything, I mean don't get me wrong, it'd be cool, but I'm not sitting around day dreaming about it either. And I'm not in the slightest concerned about getting rich.
Let me put a little more info out here for you guys, and maybe you can help me come up with a plan that's not just a pipe dream.
My goal is once I save up enough money, to buy a farm, probably just 40-60 acres, now I've got a good sum of money already saved from a grandparent who died and left money to me, and my parents won't be moving to their property for at least 5 years, and I'm pretty frugile, so for the next five years I'm going to be saving all my money, wether be money I make from animals or money I make working a job, if I'm not spending it on a nessicity its going in the bank with the rest of my savings, because I want to buy that acreage without being in debt and owing money on it. I realize that that sounds like a pipe dream, but I promise it's possible. So moving on, I like the idea of building a tiny house, or grain silo house, etc. instead of having a big fancy house with more rooms than I can use. I also want solar panels for my power. I'm already in to gardening, have a milk cow, etc. want to get bees, all that good homestead-y stuff. My one problem with all this is that I love horses, and as we all know horses are expensive, and generally homesteaders don't have things that aren't going to help keep the farm running. But I just can't help it, I love them, and I want to be around them all day. Now I've looked into just finding an equine job but there aren't a whole heck of a lot of options (one time I found a job mucking out stalls, it was an hour away and the pay would barely cover gas, and when I inquired about it they didn't want me becuase I'm a girl), so if I could make money off of horses that'd be great, but if I could just do something with them where they'd sustain themselves, I'd be over the moon about that. I know it's a long shot and not many people can do it, but maybe there's some way, I'm willing to try anything within reason. If I still have to spend a little that's fine, I mean at the very least I could just have June and Jade (my two quarter horse mares) and trail ride them and even though I'd have to spend a little on feed and farriers, etc. it'd be pretty cheap. But I just don't think I'd be happy doing that becuase I wouldn't be working around horses all day everyday, you know what I mean?
And I like I said I would love to be able to do reining some day, and I won't be able to do that on either of them, I could get started on them but I wouldn't want to put them through it for a long period of time because they wouldn't hold up.

Ps. My main income once I have my farm will be cattle, which will give me a lot of time to do something else, wether it's a job or horse training or whatever. It would be nice to have a little extra income especially if it was from horses, but my priority isn't really money. It's just that you have to have money to survive, unfortunately.

 

[Chickerdoodle13]

There are a lot of internships around the country, some of them paid, working on ranches. Everything from dude ranches to cattle ranches to show barns. I would start there and email some of these people to see what is available. When I was in undergrad, I looked into doing an internship on a dude ranch in Colorado. They offered housing and a decent pay. I ended up finding something else that summer, but all you have to do is Google horse internships and a ton come up. Sometimes to do what you love, you need to travel or venture out of your comfort zone.

Not sure if youve done college but there are quite a few paths in animal science and equine nutrition that are pretty lucrative. There are grants and scholarships you can apply for to help cover the costs. School is expensive but I do think education is invaluable.

Cattle ranches can be a lot of work. Dairy barns even more so. Unless you are just runnin a small cow calf operation, that could take up quite a bit of your time. Again, I would look into internships to get your feet wet and see if that's really what you want to do.

ETA: if you don't want to go to school for animal science, you might consider business. Farming is more than ever a business. Running a business comes with lots of paperwork, accounting, and start up costs. The initial cost of a farm is one thing but that is really only the beginning.

 

[abigalerose]

Small cow calf operation is what I want, that's what my grandpa has. Granted, he has a job too, but instead of saving up and buying a farm he got a loan and bought a farm, so he's got a fairly hefty house payment, not to mention he's not into the who self sufficiency thing, and my grandma is a pretty big spender lol, but if he took out the house payment and threw in a few self sufficient things (like solar panels) his cows could easily sustain him. Which is what I want. I did go to college for a while but it wasn't for me, and I'm pretty confident I can achieve my goals with out it, heck, every farmer I personally know never went to college. But everyone has different opinions on college, mines different from yours.
Let's talk more about the internships though. A year ago, I would have been 100% on board with that idea. But now.. I don't know. I mean I'm fixing up the farm house that was left to my parents, my cousin is moving in with me I'm 2 weeks, I've got my own cow, horses, dogs, cats, chickens, garden, etc. to take care of. Could I really just up and leave that all behind?
I know that some people do make money with horses, everyone will you tell it's not possible no one does it, etc. but I think some people do make money with horses. I realize there's lots of little things that come into play, and sometimes it takes money to make money, and I'm not above investing some of my savings, not all, but some. And I don't necessarily need to make a bunch of money or need to do it forever either, just for the next five years or so. So like I said I am willing to explore lots of options.
And I guess I do have one goal, which would be reining, that's not a money goal just something I'd love to do.

And when it comes to making money with training, let me give an example of trainers in my area. There's a boy who graduated high school when I started high school, so I don't know him personally but I had a couple classes with his brother, etc. he didn't get really into horses until after he graduated, and then he started training horses. Now he trains them and that's what he does for a living (I think he's got some cows too), he has a farm (parents farm) with barbed wire fencing and only pipe up around the house and his round pen (sound familiar? Lol that's how my grandpas is too), he starts colts, 30 day, he spends about a week on teaching them to lead, back, yeild, and lunge, gets them to accept the saddle, and spends the rest of the time putting rides on them, IMO he's somewhere between old cowboy way and natural horsemanship, he's actually a pretty good trainer and I've heard lots of good about him, and he actually cares about the horses. Now here's how is business is ran, the horses have access to pasture (no stalls), and I think but I'm not 100% sure that he provides grain. You pay for any vet/farrier expenses while your horse is there, so in other words, his only expense is feed, maybe. He has NO liability or insurance. He charges $600 a month per horse, he usually has quite a few horses at once and is pretty much always booked. Now this might sound absurd to some of you guys, and risky, and like a lawsuit waiting to happen, but seriously, I'm not lying when I say that's pretty much the norm around here. He's a little on the expensive side but other than that, normal, and he's good so people will pay what he asks.

 

[bantamrooster]

Small cow calf operation is what I want, that's what my grandpa has. Granted, he has a job too, but instead of saving up and buying a farm he got a loan and bought a farm, so he's got a fairly hefty house payment, not to mention he's not into the who self sufficiency thing, and my grandma is a pretty big spender lol, but if he took out the house payment and threw in a few self sufficient things (like solar panels) his cows could easily sustain him. Which is what I want. I did go to college for a while but it wasn't for me, and I'm pretty confident I can achieve my goals with out it, heck, every farmer I personally know never went to college. But everyone has different opinions on college, mines different from yours.
Let's talk more about the internships though. A year ago, I would have been 100% on board with that idea. But now.. I don't know. I mean I'm fixing up the farm house that was left to my parents, my cousin is moving in with me I'm 2 weeks, I've got my own cow, horses, dogs, cats, chickens, garden, etc. to take care of. Could I really just up and leave that all behind?
I know that some people do make money with horses, everyone will you tell it's not possible no one does it, etc. but I think some people do make money with horses. I realize there's lots of little things that come into play, and sometimes it takes money to make money, and I'm not above investing some of my savings, not all, but some. And I don't necessarily need to make a bunch of money or need to do it forever either, just for the next five years or so. So like I said I am willing to explore lots of options.
And I guess I do have one goal, which would be reining, that's not a money goal just something I'd love to do.

And when it comes to making money with training, let me give an example of trainers in my area. There's a boy who graduated high school when I started high school, so I don't know him personally but I had a couple classes with his brother, etc. he didn't get really into horses until after he graduated, and then he started training horses. Now he trains them and that's what he does for a living (I think he's got some cows too), he has a farm (parents farm) with barbed wire fencing and only pipe up around the house and his round pen (sound familiar? Lol that's how my grandpas is too), he starts colts, 30 day, he spends about a week on teaching them to lead, back, yeild, and lunge, gets them to accept the saddle, and spends the rest of the time putting rides on them, IMO he's somewhere between old cowboy way and natural horsemanship, he's actually a pretty good trainer and I've heard lots of good about him, and he actually cares about the horses. Now here's how is business is ran, the horses have access to pasture (no stalls), and I think but I'm not 100% sure that he provides grain. You pay for any vet/farrier expenses while your horse is there, so in other words, his only expense is feed, maybe. He has NO liability or insurance. He charges $600 a month per horse, he usually has quite a few horses at once and is pretty much always booked. Now this might sound absurd to some of you guys, and risky, and like a lawsuit waiting to happen, but seriously, I'm not lying when I say that's pretty much the norm around here. He's a little on the expensive side but other than that, normal, and he's good so people will pay what he asks.

Why even mess with the horse idea if what you really want is to raise cows?
If you want to raise cows put your time energy and money into that. Youve talked about getting set up for horses. Why? If cows is your long term get set up for them and get started with them now. Get your cows up and running and making money then spend some of it to fund a horse hobby.
No need to worry about all this to turn around and switch everything to cattle later.

 

[theoldchick]

Well, you do need well trained horses to work with cattle in rough brush. We have a small cattle operation that we share with a neighbor. It's difficult because you have to make sure you have plenty of hay for the winter. So we have to have the equipment/land to make hay and transport our cattle. Must have equipment to to feed the cattle in the winter. You gotta get out there and check them to make sure they are doing well, calving well and so forth. The price of cattle can change on a moments notice and you might get three dollars a pound one week and the next month you might get a dollar a pound. It's not a one person job. It takes several people to work a farm. And they need to be paid. We might not make money on our farm but all the challenges keep us busy.

 

[abigalerose]

Well I don't have anywhere to put cattle right now.. 7 acres isn't enough. Also I'm not just gonna switch, I'd like to have both. Cattle would be like a business, horses a passion.
And trust me, I know all about caring for cattle, I've helped my grandpa since I was little. Well, I haven't always been much help, mostly just an observer lol but I've learned a lot, and my grandpa has always been successful on his own. This year I'm gonna hopefully be cuttin my first steer though. I've seen it a thousand times just never been brave enough. But I told my grandpa when he goes out to tag and cut the two bull calves that were just born to let me come along so I can do it. I've done ear tags and shots before. Broke ice, fed hay, etc. But yeah anyways, I'm not gonna just not do anything with horses for the next 5 years while I work on saving for a farm, and once I get a farm I'm not just gonna stick cows on it and forget about horses. More like I want to keep working with horses and hopefully have cows.
My cousin and parents think I should pick up horses at auction, train them, and then resell them, but wouldn't that make me a horse trader?

 

[ShrekDawg]

Well I don't have anywhere to put cattle right now.. 7 acres isn't enough. Also I'm not just gonna switch, I'd like to have both. Cattle would be like a business, horses a passion.
And trust me, I know all about caring for cattle, I've helped my grandpa since I was little. Well, I haven't always been much help, mostly just an observer lol but I've learned a lot, and my grandpa has always been successful on his own. This year I'm gonna hopefully be cuttin my first steer though. I've seen it a thousand times just never been brave enough. But I told my grandpa when he goes out to tag and cut the two bull calves that were just born to let me come along so I can do it. I've done ear tags and shots before. Broke ice, fed hay, etc. But yeah anyways, I'm not gonna just not do anything with horses for the next 5 years while I work on saving for a farm, and once I get a farm I'm not just gonna stick cows on it and forget about horses. More like I want to keep working with horses and hopefully have cows.
My cousin and parents think I should pick up horses at auction, train them, and then resell them, but wouldn't that make me a horse trader?

I think labels are just that, just a label. You can be/do whatever you want to be. And backyard breeders, horse traders, etc. Aren't always a bad thing. Especially since you love horses and would actually take care of them, unlike most people doing that, so I think you should worry less about labels and more about if you want to do it or not and if you do, then do it, and if not, then don't, but don't not do it just because someone might call you something

 

[abigalerose]

That's true. And I wouldn't really be worried about making a profit, if I did that'd be great and if not that's okay, and I could probably get my initial investment back. Plus that would give me the experience I want without having to worry about liability and insurance. I'll have to think about it once I get moved. My grandpa probably wouldn't let me at his house becuase he'd be too worried I'd get attached to every horse

 

[ShrekDawg]

That's true. And I wouldn't really be worried about making a profit, if I did that'd be great and if not that's okay, and I could probably get my initial investment back. Plus that would give me the experience I want without having to worry about liability and insurance. I'll have to think about it once I get moved. My grandpa probably wouldn't let me at his house becuase he'd be too worried I'd get attached to every horse

I think it's definitely something to consider! And you're right, it would be great experience without all the liability, which I hadn't even thought of. And the nice thing is that you can always keep them for however long you want, you could just teach the basics and sell them for less, or you could always keep some for longer and do more advanced training and sell them for more. And you could do both or anything in between. In fact, I've seen a lot of listings like that, "price will go up with more training" type things, both horses and dogs. I think it's a great idea. And LOL I probably would too

 

[abigalerose]

When my family first suggested it I briefly considered it, but then ruled it out based solely on the thought of tying to talk my grandpa into, but now I'm moving a lot sooner than I thought I would, so I guess it's time to reconsider. I had forgotten about it till now. Maybe we're finally on to something. According to my cousin it wouldn't be hard to recoup your costs, and even make a profit. She said if I did two horses that way it'd be like training 8 horses at the price I'm training now, which would be a lot better. Given I don't get attached to them lol. But yeah if a horse were to get hurt or killed, it would be my loss and not someone else's, and I wouldn't get sued. And I wouldn't feel pressured to get everything done in 30 days. And yeah, I see lots the price will go up with training ads too. Maybe because there's something to it.