How long from pip to zip?

[Pollmadoll]

I find myself now incubating five guinea fowl eggs as the mother is in and off broody . Any tips ??

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don’t understand how you can tell a chick has internally pipped without taking it out and candling it...

I was talking about the hatching process the chick goes through, not what you know. Your not knowing only adds to the uncertainty. It can make these decisions even harder.

which, I thought I wasn’t supposed to open the incubator during lockdown...?

Some people do, some people don't. It's possible the membrane around the chick can dry out and shrink around the chick, trapping it so it cannot move to hatch. That's called shrink-wrap. Opening the incubator and letting the moisture level in there drop "can" lead to shrink-wrap, especially if the chick has external pipped. "Can" does not mean always. It doesn't happen a lot but I have done it so I believe it can happen.

Some people take precautions before they open the incubator during lockdown. They may mist warm water in the incubator when they open it of even spray the eggs. They may steam up a bathroom and open the incubator in there. Some people just pop the incubator open and take out a chick after it has hatched. A lot of times that is not a problem, even if some other eggs have external pipped. I remember one lady, a very nice lady I enjoyed chatting with, who said she just opened the incubator to take a chick out when it had dried off. She was one of the forum experts on dealing with shrink-wrapped chicks.

If I have an emergency inside the incubator during lockdown I'll deal with it. I understand there is a risk so I weigh between the emergency and the risk. I'm not afraid to open it if I see a real need, but it is not something I do lightly.

I don't see candling eggs as an emergency, but some people candle them. As long as they have not external pipped where the egg can lose a lot of moisture fast it's probably not that big of an issue.

It's not that unusual for some eggs to external pip more than two full days early. Mine sometimes do that under a broody hen, let alone in an incubator. That's why we lock down and raise the humidity three days before the 21 days are up, so the early eggs, if they happen, don't shrink-wrap. By that stage turning doesn't matter. The egg should have lost enough moisture so the chick can hatch. The timing on lockdown is to be ready just in case some eggs are early.

 

[Pullety]

I was talking about the hatching process the chick goes through, not what you know. Your not knowing only adds to the uncertainty. It can make these decisions even harder.


Some people do, some people don't. It's possible the membrane around the chick can dry out and shrink around the chick, trapping it so it cannot move to hatch. That's called shrink-wrap. Opening the incubator and letting the moisture level in there drop "can" lead to shrink-wrap, especially if the chick has external pipped. "Can" does not mean always. It doesn't happen a lot but I have done it so I believe it can happen.

Some people take precautions before they open the incubator during lockdown. They may mist warm water in the incubator when they open it of even spray the eggs. They may steam up a bathroom and open the incubator in there. Some people just pop the incubator open and take out a chick after it has hatched. A lot of times that is not a problem, even if some other eggs have external pipped. I remember one lady, a very nice lady I enjoyed chatting with, who said she just opened the incubator to take a chick out when it had dried off. She was one of the forum experts on dealing with shrink-wrapped chicks.

If I have an emergency inside the incubator during lockdown I'll deal with it. I understand there is a risk so I weigh between the emergency and the risk. I'm not afraid to open it if I see a real need, but it is not something I do lightly.

I don't see candling eggs as an emergency, but some people candle them. As long as they have not external pipped where the egg can lose a lot of moisture fast it's probably not that big of an issue.

It's not that unusual for some eggs to external pip more than two full days early. Mine sometimes do that under a broody hen, let alone in an incubator. That's why we lock down and raise the humidity three days before the 21 days are up, so the early eggs, if they happen, don't shrink-wrap. By that stage turning doesn't matter. The egg should have lost enough moisture so the chick can hatch. The timing on lockdown is to be ready just in case some eggs are early.

Thank you so much for your reply! I’m not sure if this prevents shrink wrap but I have a humidifier I turn on when I want to open the incubator and when my hygrometer reads 70% I go ahead and open it. I have a chick whose air cell is on the side. Not sure what I can do for it but I took it out to candle it and put a “safety hole” in the shell at the air cell, not that it would make a difference at this point because there’s no movement and no evidence it was able to internally pip.

 

[PegDemetris]

I came down this morning at 7am to discover one of my eggs had pipped (I use that term lightly as there was no clear hole, just a bump in the shell if that makes sense). Over six hours later and it looks exactly the same. A few others have pipped now too, none of them making much progress (well, not as fast as I'd like anyway

). So, how long can it take between pip and zip? I'm sure it'll be fine but I'm needing a distraction anyway so thought I'd ask. Also, if it's the same after x, y, z number of hours, it'd be nice to be able to just stop worrying about it - and knowing when to be sure it's died etc.

TIA

I have had one chick take over 24 hours and the rest of them less than 2 hours from pip to hatch. Congrats and oh so exciting.

 

[Ashley & Donna Dame]

I don’t understand how you can tell a chick has internally pipped without taking it out and candling it... which, I thought I wasn’t supposed to open the incubator during lockdown...?

A lot of times you begin to hear chirping. Thats once they get their first breath of air.

 

[Risserfam7]

The answer is a several minutes to many, many worrying hours. The many hours is the usual situation. That bump is a pip, by the way.

During the final hatching stage, the chick needs to absorb the yolk, dry up certain blood vessels, and go through some more changes before it can safely come out of the shell. Some chicks do a lot of this between internal pip and external pip. These usually hatch pretty quickly after external pip. Some do most of this after external pip. These are the ones we worry about. Some even zip an come out before completely finishing the process. Many of these make it fine, but anywhere along this process, bad things can happen. If you help a chick before it is ready, you can easily kill the chick.

There is no clear deadline when you know everything is hopeless. I once shrink-wrapped a chick when I opened the incubator during lockdown to handle another problem. The chick had externally pipped but was then stuck. About 36 hours later when I opened the incubator to take the rest of the chicks out, that chick was still alive. I helped it since it was my fault it was in trouble. That chick did fine.

I had 19 eggs and they started hatching yesterday. I’ve taken them each out after several hours as they were bumping eggs around and crowded. Now I’m concerned when you talk about shrink wrap. Are you not to open? I did it quickly

 

[Hatch in chicks]

Quote:

For me, there was a long period between pipping and zipping, but once zipping started, it went fast

yes, my record was 12 hours 2nd place was 18 hours. once they started zipping it took around 15 minutes.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Now I’m concerned when you talk about shrink wrap. Are you not to open? I did it quickly

Shrink wrap is when the membrane on the inside of the eggshell dries and shrinks around the chick so tightly it cannot move and cannot hatch. It doesn't happen that often, some people seem to think it never happens while there are several threads on this forum telling you how to manage it. It can get confusing. To avoid shrink-wrap is why we increase the humidity for lockdown.

One possible cause of shrink-wrap is opening the incubator to let the moist air out which can dry that membrane. There can be other causes of shrink-wrap, it doesn't have to be caused by opening the incubator but that is a major contributor. The risk is higher after an egg has external pipped. Before you panic, most eggs are not going to shrink-wrap when you open the incubator. It really doesn't happen that often. You are probably fine.

Many people regularly open the incubator during hatch and don't see a problem. It really does not happen that often. But since it can possibly happen I try to avoid opening the incubator during lockdown. If I see a problem that I need to fix I will open it and take my chances, weighing the risk against whatever the emergency is. I don't like to take unnecessary risks with hatching so I consider it best practice to not open the incubator during lockdown. That doesn't mean I won't do it.

 

[Risserfam7]

Shrink wrap is when the membrane on the inside of the eggshell dries and shrinks around the chick so tightly it cannot move and cannot hatch. It doesn't happen that often, some people seem to think it never happens while there are several threads on this forum telling you how to manage it. It can get confusing. To avoid shrink-wrap is why we increase the humidity for lockdown.

One possible cause of shrink-wrap is opening the incubator to let the moist air out which can dry that membrane. There can be other causes of shrink-wrap, it doesn't have to be caused by opening the incubator but that is a major contributor. The risk is higher after an egg has external pipped. Before you panic, most eggs are not going to shrink-wrap when you open the incubator. It really doesn't happen that often. You are probably fine.

Many people regularly open the incubator during hatch and don't see a problem. It really does not happen that often. But since it can possibly happen I try to avoid opening the incubator during lockdown. If I see a problem that I need to fix I will open it and take my chances, weighing the risk against whatever the emergency is. I don't like to take unnecessary risks with hatching so I consider it best practice to not open the incubator during lockdown. That doesn't mean I won't do it.

So I have 2 chicks in there now wanting out. One has been pipped open since yesterday. Lots of movement. The one that hatched today took 3 hrs after a good hole was started. Could it be slightly dried? Should I increase humidity? We don’t leave it open. We snatch quick through a crack while one person slightly opens to grab chick. I just wondered if the membrane is dried a little since it’s taking so long. Also have a little millie that’s been pipped probably day 3 and it was moving around today but it’s not making more than a crack.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Could it be slightly dried?

I don't know, I'm not looking at it. Can you see membrane? Does it look white and dry? Usually in these situations patience is your best friend.

Should I increase humidity?

What is the humidity now? If it is 65% or above I'd leave it alone.

I just wondered if the membrane is dried a little since it’s taking so long.

When everything is going perfectly it can often take over 24 hours. Before they hatch the chicks need to absorb the yolk, dry up blood vessels that are outside their bodies so they could get nutrients from the egg material, do something with the liquid outside their bodies so they dry up nice and fluffy, and other things. Some chicks do a lot of this between internal pip and external pip and zip pretty soon after external pip. Some wait until after external pip to do this. These can take forever and are really worrying.

Also have a little millie that’s been pipped probably day 3 and it was moving around today but it’s not making more than a crack.

This one is worrying. Three days from external pip to zip is a long time. You might do a search on helping a chick hatch to get some more expert help than I can offer.