How many chickens would you need to keep to supply all the meat and eggs your family eats?

[cmom]

This is my incubator and brooder. I do have some coops for grow-out.

I use my old styrofaom incubators as hatchers.

 

[cmom]

Oh people in my grandparents day didn't feed chickens, they ate whatever they could find and the other livestock left. Dogs helped with the predators. Didn't feed the dogs either.
Chicken dinner on Sundays. Leftovers for lunch.
Not sure how many they had or hatched but they had plenty of chicken. There was a hen house, but never shut in.

I had my first flock around 50 years ago. The birds didn't have regular feed and did free range and were given grains and seeds.

 

[cmom]

At what age do you think you can reliably judge the quality of the pullets and cockerels you've grown out?
I was talking about this with a man from the project yesterday. I think it's quite a skill.

I can usually tell around 5 months. The ones I'm sure won't be breeders I start selling then. I keep the possibilities for awhile longer to see how they develop and then keep the ones for breeding. Here are some of my RIR males. One thing to look for is a full long back to the tail. If they are too narrow I don't keep them.

 

[aart]

Trolling at its finest. Folks, there is an expert in our midst. I applaud the evident skill. It is true that our posts tend to portray our true character.

Tangled lines everywhere!!

 

[TwoShepherds]

I'm just a newbie, trying to learn from the more experienced folks on this site, and have been following this thread with interest. I just started my first flock of egg-layers this May with the goal of someday having a nice dual-purpose breed that could also serve as a meat bird.

I have no pretensions of changing the world or never buying store-bought meat again (though there are many small and ethical farms nearby from which we can, and do, buy meat and other products). I simply like raising and keeping animals and believe that home-raised or grown products taste better and are most likely fresher and healthier.

There seems to be an assumption that incubator-hatched eggs are less ethical than eggs hatched by a broody hen. I wonder why this is? Assuming that the eggs in the incubator are hatched by someone who doesn't overcrowd the chicks and keeps them in good conditions (say, someone on this forum rather than a commercial outfit trying to make the maximim profit). It is a less natural way of rearing chicks, for sure, but that seems like more of a philosophical difference than an ethical one considering that free ranged chicks are subject to all manner of hazards--but perhaps I am missing something. I could see how the chicks that grew up and survived in a free-range setting would be particularly wily and hardy (survival-of-the-fittest and all), and might be able to pass that on to their own future offspring.

I like my eggs. I may like the eggs more than meat. Our family certainly qualifies as one that eats and loves meat, but we don't eat it everyday, certainly not every meal, and I wouldn't mind cutting back even more. I am still on the fence as to whether I think broodiness is a pro or a con in my flock. If the hens are constantly going broody and having to be broke and not laying, that could be a huge drawback for me. On the other hand, I don't know how time-consuming, difficult, and frustrating it is to incubate eggs, or if there are other ethical considerations about incubating that I am not aware of yet. I am sure everyone has their own preferences and ideals. I am keeping an open mind until I have several more years experience at the least. I have to figure out what breed works for me before I even consider hatching out my own eggs.

I hesitate to jump into this coversation as a novice, and I don't mean to take the thread off topic (if it is, please just ignore it). I am enjoying all the comments, even the conflicting and heated ones, and appreciate the rich discussion. I have found I've been thinking about it off and on the last several days.

 

[Shadrach]

I can usually tell around 5 months. The ones I'm sure won't be breeders I start selling then. I keep the possibilities for awhile longer to see how they develop and then keep the ones for breeding. Here are some of my RIR males. One thing to look for is a full long back to the tail. If they are too narrow I don't keep them.
View attachment 1964877 View attachment 1964879

Fortunately how they look isn't so important for this project or here where I live. Temperament is, for both females and males. I'm getting better at picking the problem hens in particular. There isn't much one can do about their behavior but it helps to know if a hen is likely to make a good broody or tribe leader when keeping a free range flock. I've had some pretty unpleasant hens here and most of the time another hen, not always senior, sorts them out. I just have to patch up the injuries.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

I mean, I get the idea of the research study. It's a cool research study to get information on feral chickens.
But domestically your chickens should be kept safe/well enough that you don't lose half your chicks to starvation and predators.

I suppose, if we're talking about people in less developed countries you're right. But the clincher is there are also less people per acre in those places. And they do NOT eat chicken as their main protein source, many of those areas eat beans, fish etc and the chickens become soup when they're eaten. (I actually recently was in some very small native Mexican villages like this surprisingly recently. It was very interesting to experience and a bit of a culture shock I must admit. I ate a lot less meat on that trip. It was very clear they didn't eat that much chicken or even meat as the average westerner. Also the kept chickens I saw on that trip were about the same size as american non-broiler chickens. Many were even breeds I recognized.)

This is deeply conflicting with your numbers you try to cite largely from the western world to show how futile it all is. You're still having the same problem - trying to take numbers for maintaining chickens from undeveloped areas and transport them onto a (deeply exaggerated!) western consumption model. And then declare it futile and the people who think it isn't as lesser.

But people with a western consumption model tend to have access to western resources like more feed and grocery access than land access. And manage accordingly, and eat accordingly. So when the model is adjusted for western resources it works again and has an impact especially individually and socially.
And in the other direction, if your local chicken options are already mostly free ranged and well fed, sheltered and safe from predators, why would you even need to try to "up" their living standards? You're there already. And people already eat dramatically less chicken to compensate as well. What are you competing with or trying to change? Your model is already balanced in regards to animal welfare. The problems in that model that need solutions (like regional poverty, or lack of water access) aren't fixed by eating lots of chickens.
And if your chickens are all but feral, an inch back towards western society increases their health, welfare and your production. So being "more" free ranged isn't improving anything there either.

Again, it's just a bizzare unrealistic model that doesn't fit into any structure, localized or global cause it's bits and pieces some of which aren't even true. And therefore no conclusions can be drawn from it.

 

[Shadrach]

Oh people in my grandparents day didn't feed chickens, they ate whatever they could find and the other livestock left. Dogs helped with the predators. Didn't feed the dogs either.
Chicken dinner on Sundays. Leftovers for lunch.
Not sure how many they had or hatched but they had plenty of chicken. There was a hen house, but never shut in.

That's quite common here. The hen house is usually a room/lean to attached to the house. Most here feed their chickens and the real enthusiasts make their own feed and from what I've seen it knocks spots of many commercial feeds.
Most get meal scraps but even now for a great many small holders and farmers money is tight and there aren't many scraps.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

There seems to be an assumption that incubator-hatched eggs are less ethical than eggs hatched by a broody hen. I wonder why this is?

I wonder if this is my source of confusion too. Maybe the assumption that "natural" is "best/most humane" is being made in this thread? (Not it was stated as such.) I think incubating and brooding chicks indoors is not only completely acceptable it's even the only way to propagate many breeds these days.

The black plague is natural, but we're not very fond of the death and suffering it causes. Why should we be accept that the "natural" losses we experience as chicken keepers mean that we have "humane" practices? Do we not think that chickens experience stress or fear at all?

To me, every loss is a failure, a missing cog in the machine. Someone pushed too hard or didn't do enough. My goal for a "more humane" chicken has always been based off of a hierarchy of needs, in which safety/security is the second most important thing. It feels to me like it might be more natural to let my chickens roam, but their deaths of being shredded alive by a hawk are far less humane than confining them to a very large space where a predator can't get them.
Practicality aside I think it's more humane to feed them their minimum daily needs to maintain a healthy body weight in smaller space than to leave the only two food options being "CAFO animals" and "Practically caught in the wild".

I feel like there's an inbetween moment here that's ideal, especially because these ARE domesticated animals, that many strive towards. And "losing half my chicks to the wilds" and "losing 10% of my stock due to overcrowding" are both sub-par. One Bad Day. That's the goal.

If the "natural" is somehow the ideal and the only acceptable model, then I just don't agree at all for welfare AND my personal moral reasons.

 

[Ridgerunner]

@TwoShepherds I'll give my opinion on this.

There seems to be an assumption that incubator-hatched eggs are less ethical than eggs hatched by a broody hen. I wonder why this is?

The people on this forum have different goals, climates, set-ups, experiences, and many other things. People might raise them for eggs, meat, pets, to play with genetics, as yard ornaments, for bug control, a combination of these things, or something else entirely. They use different definitions for the same words so we talk at cross-purposes. Too many (in my opinion) consider their way the best way for everyone regardless of circumstances. Any other way of doing it is just not right. To me the reality is that there are a lot of different ways to do abut anything. For some people in their unique circumstances one way might work out better for them but would be a disaster for others.

I think you should study it but decide what is the right way for you. A whole lot of this is personal preference. I try to answer questions with that in mind, my personal preference doesn't necessarily mean anything to you because of our differences. There are many different ways to feed, house, and manage them. You need to find your own way. I see people on this forum that want to dictate to you that you have to use their way, yet many people manage quite well doing it another way.

Good luck on your journey.