How many wine makers do we have here?

[2overeasy000]

Quote:
You can and it comes out more "bready" and "boozy." You also don't need to add yeast at all, as wild yeast is everywhere. But, most people prefer to use some sort of wine yeast. Some will fully ferment and the wine comes out more dry, others stop sooner and leave the wine a little sweeter, and so on.

I just stole a taste of the Blueberry Mead...mmm...

 

[oesdog]

Yeah - I posted that DH didn;t use the same yeast as for the bread he bakes - I stand corrected - he says yes you can and he does. He only used stuff in a different packet he got from the wine makers store - Sorry!!!!! We only started brewing wine and beer this summer so I don;t know what I am saying!!!

Oesdog

 

[muddstopper]

Just a word about using Potassium metabitsulfite, or similar in your wine making.
1. Some people are alergic to the sulfites and shouldnt use these chemicals when making wine.
2. Potassium metabitsulfite will leave a off taste in your finished wine product.
3. The purpose of the Potassium metabitsulfite is to kill off any wild yeast, bacteria, etc. in your must. This can be eliminated by simply heating your must to a temperature of 170degrees and letting just simmer on your stovetop for 30 minutes. Do not boil the must as to much heat will set the Pectin in the fruit making fermentation more difficult.


Can you use bakers yeast to make wine? Of course, but every yeast works on the fruit a little different, yeilding different taste and different acohol levels. Wine makeing yeast is very in-expensive and the finished product is much more repeatable and predictable. Junk in, junk out. Good wine takes time and a quality yeast, Why waste your time, and fruit, using a poor quality yeast.

Some people like to ferment just the juice, and nothing but the juice. Sadly, not all fruits have the same amounts of nutrient for a good fermentation, and will often "stick" (stop fermenting before the sugar is converted to alcohol). I add a nutrient to many of the frouts I know are low and they NEVER stick!

I have found the major cause of a sticking fermentation to be the addition of to much sugar and to much water. I like to use as pure a juice as I can, even tho this will mean a lesser quantity of wine. I also like to add my sugars slowly, it the recipie calls for 4lbs of sugar, I will only add 2 lbs in the primary. Then another pound when racked into the carbouy, and then the other pound at the next racking. I fact, I have quit using sugar recommendations suggested in recipies completely. I just tastetest everytime I rack and add sugar according to my taste.​

 

[Totalcolour]

Quote:
Not true AT ALL! In fact, it can contribute to the final finish in a positive way. Natually, ANYONE with any allergic reaction to sulfite should not make/consume wine with sulfite. Used correctly, there is absolutely no problem with it. In high levels, it can often be detected, and some people can detect lower levels than others.

3. The purpose of the Potassium metabitsulfite is to kill off any wild yeast, bacteria, etc. in your must. This can be eliminated by simply heating your must to a temperature of 170degrees and letting just simmer on your stovetop for 30 minutes. Do not boil the must as to much heat will set the Pectin in the fruit making fermentation more difficult.

"Sulfur dioxide has three major functions in winemaking: to control undesirable organisms, to inhibit the browning enzymes, and to serve as an antioxidant" "Amerine and Singleton, Wine, an introduction for Americans". University of California Press. (page 98)

Simmering certain fruits can contribute to hazes in wine (which are often hard to clear), and will alter the taste of the finished product, often with a loss of the fruit taste.

Can you use bakers yeast to make wine? Of course, but every yeast works on the fruit a little different, yielding different taste and different alcohol levels. Wine makeing yeast is very in-expensive and the finished product is much more repeatable and predictable. Junk in, junk out. Good wine takes time and a quality yeast, Why waste your time, and fruit, using a poor quality yeast.

Some people like to ferment just the juice, and nothing but the juice. Sadly, not all fruits have the same amounts of nutrient for a good fermentation, and will often "stick" (stop fermenting before the sugar is converted to alcohol). I add a nutrient to many of the fruits I know are low and they NEVER stick!

I have found the major cause of a sticking fermentation to be the addition of to much sugar and to much water. I like to use as pure a juice as I can, even tho this will mean a lesser quantity of wine. I also like to add my sugars slowly, it the recipie calls for 4lbs of sugar, I will only add 2 lbs in the primary. Then another pound when racked into the carbouy, and then the other pound at the next racking. I fact, I have quit using sugar recommendations suggested in recipies completely. I just tastetest everytime I rack and add sugar according to my taste.​

Not true either. Winemakers do not add sugar incrementally. Sugar in the grape is (almost always) at the correct level prior to fermentation. Sometimes a winemaker (grape) will add another juice higher in sugar if his primary must is low. For the wine industry, it would be impractical and expensive to add sugar in this way.

If you use a hydrometer correctly, there should be no need to adjust sugar later in the fermentation - this could actually cause a wine to stick. Sugar added later may cause a wine to stick, then later, after bottling the wine may start to re-ferment and you end up with an exploded bottle (or many). This is a very dangerous thing to do. Sweetening a wine can best be done using a non fermentable sugar (like Splenda) OR by using Sorbitol (potassium sorbate) or other product to prevent refermentation. Also, it's much more difficult to determine the alcohol content if sugar is added during fermentation.

All my information comes from these sources:
Amerine and Singleton, Wine, an introduction for Americans. University of California Press.
"Winemaking Basics" C.S. Ough, DSc, MS (Dr. Ough was a faculty member of the Department of Viticulture and Enology at the University of Califonia at Davis for 41 years.
"The Complete Handbook of Winemaking" - the American Wine Society

(just to name a few; I have a lot more books in the library

)​

 

[2overeasy000]

Potassium metabitsulfite (sulfite, k-meta, metabi, etc)

Again, not necessary. HOWEVER; I like to use bleach on my kitchen counter tops to kills nasty microbes so I don't get food positioning. Same for wine - the K-meta will kill nasty microbes in the must (the fruit pulp that you make the wine with) so you don't end up with a bunch of really icky wine that potentially could harm you. Or at least make you feel very sick! If you have a reaction to sulfite, DON'T use it, but take every precaution to keep airborne germs out of the wine and use very clean fruit.

What nasty microbes in the must can harm you or make you sick once fermentation is completed?

 

[2overeasy000]

Quote:
I have found the major cause of a sticking fermentation to be the addition of to much sugar and to much water. I like to use as pure a juice as I can, even tho this will mean a lesser quantity of wine. I also like to add my sugars slowly, it the recipie calls for 4lbs of sugar, I will only add 2 lbs in the primary. Then another pound when racked into the carbouy, and then the other pound at the next racking. I fact, I have quit using sugar recommendations suggested in recipies completely. I just tastetest everytime I rack and add sugar according to my taste.

Personally, I try to go as "natural" as possible. Not using any chemicals. But, I wouldn't say that bread yeast is necessarily lower quality. Just leaves you with a different end product. It simply depends on what kind of taste you are going for.

 

[oesdog]

Oh - we had exploding elderflower. It was sooooo scary but then really funny for a bit as we had to clean up the entire Dinning room after two bottles exploded and litterally shot the ceiling and covered the table and walls and floor. The top came off and shot out. Even though they were screw tops and had been opened every few days to let out the air. As instructed! Later we were washing the bottles and found that there were split lines from pressure in the glass. Were not making the elderflower again!!!!!! Though I liked it DH said it tasted of cat pee!!!!!( wonder how he knows what cat pee tastes like????

) Oh well ! We served it at our grandaughters 1st Birthday party ( To adults) And they all liked it - or were they being nice????

Oesdog

 

[Totalcolour]

Quote:
I've been lucky (so far) not to have had any wines that made me ill. I have had an occasional one that had gone off (hydrogen sulfide) in a blackberry wine, or had MEK or other nasty tastes/smells in a strawberry wine. I didn't drink them so don't know if they would have made me sick.

Many people think that the fermentation will kill ickies in wine, when really the fermentation process is simply converting sugar to alcohol and carbon dioxide gas. Alcohol is a sterilant to some degree, but in the level it is found in wine, it wouldn't be protection against "bad stuff". Anyone seen the movie "Arsenic and Old Lace"?

It's simply not worth it to me to spend my time and money making wine only to have it go bad and not be drinkable or "potentially" harmful.

I'm not trying to be an alarmist. But I do think that several centuries of winemaking, and several thousands of professional winemaker can't be wrong; if that's the way they do it, can't be bad!

 

[Totalcolour]

Quote:
There is a really wonderful fortified wine on the market made with elderflowers, and it's really expensive. "St. Germaine". Elderflower is one of those wines that your either hate or love. It seems there's a substance in it that some folks find really offensive (the cat pee thing, maybe?), while others think it's really yummy. Sadly, I find it really yummy but it's nearly $40 per bottle.

So, maybe your friends really did like it!

 

[oesdog]

Thanks but sadly it is the only time we will make it - the rest went round the dinning room floor!!

I was gutted!

Oesdog