How meat birds have changed you
- Thread starter saltykins
- Start date
As someone who spent years working in the restaurant industry (refer to user name - that's not the only one, just the most interesting. I worked a few classy high end restaurants too and those were just as bad - the cost of the food makes no impact on the staff's behaviors) I can tell you first hand, there's a huge difference between what most inspections are lucky enough to catch, and what people get away with regularly. I prefer to take my chances processing as much of my own meat as possible at home - pure and simple. I'm no good at gardening - so I outsource that if you will to a friend that is good at it but could never kill anything she raised and we often trade for stuff. But her thinking regarding sanitation and safety is the same as mine.
There's nothing in the food industry like a bus person running through the kitchen whispering "Inspecion!" to get them to shape up back of house and change the outcome of an inspection - but the stuff I witnessed on camera when they thought no one was looking or even first hand when I was just another server and not management was enough to make me change my mind about what we did here at the house. I know it's not just restaurants - I've got a friend whose husband is in management with a HUGE grocery chain...the same things happened there and some of the stories we swapped were enough to change both our points of view on a lot. Since he went to work for the grocery store they RARELY eat out and produce what they can at the house too now.
Chickens in general started as a hobby for me. Since I met my husband, hunting had become a big part of my life through him, and growing up both our families had raised a ton of our own eggs and meat and such just as a hobby - something fun to do spending time with animals and the kids in the yard. We got the first chickens for ourselves as just that - a hobby - and while it still is by definition I suppose, since we don't make any money with it, it has also turned into something we believe in and have faith in as truly being better than what we could purchase either dining out or at the store. That hobby quickly became a way of life for us as we evaluated what I had witnessed in my day to day work life and really discussed not only where our food comes from but how much trust we put into the people producing it.
I worked in a froo froo seafood restaurant for a while...there's nothing in the world like going back to get sauce from the walk in fridge and finding 2 other servers hosting lobster races and taking bets ON THE FLOOR! All I could think was "someone is going to pay $30 for that lobster...and it's been running races on the floor where our dirty feet go back and forth"....yum...delicious and well worth $30 don't you think?
Or hearing from my friends husband how several staff members were caught smoking marijuana in the meat coolers...really? Pot infused beef...don't they sell that in Cali if you have glaucoma? And where did those ashes go anyways? It was just a gross thought all around...
My favorite of his was when he explained that sometimes, meat would be dropped, hit the floor, and the plastic wrapper would be broken, but they were expected just to rewrap it - to quote him as long as the health department wasn't there it never happened - the story to that "memo" was APPALLING...I didn't know the 10 second rule applied to something I hadn't even brought home yet...I thought it only meant stuff I dropped like m&ms...or chips...but according to him it was a common occurrence.
I suppose ON PAPER where our food comes from can be PORTRAYED as safe when we purchase things from grocery stores and food chains...but I also remember getting a 100% perfect score on a health department inspection...and then an hour later having to write up a cook for wiping an egg pan with his dirty apron before cracking 2 eggs for a breakfast sampler. If he had done that in front of her - we would have been in deep youknowwhat - but "luckily" for me he waited until he thought no one was looking and I happened to be watching the cameras in the office. A failed health inspection is as good as fired with the company I was with - but that was another defining moment for me in deciding where my meals would come from. Like I said, what people do when they know they are being watched and when they think no one is looking are often times 2 different things. I've seen it first hand - servers that NEVER wash their hands like they should doing it correctly because the inspector is there, cooks that don't actually temp things as they should ONLY doing their temperature checks because you walked up behind them at the right time...not everyone is evil or bad...but a good deal are lazy if you turn your back. It happens in grocery stores too and it eventually became enough to put me off of buying anything I could raise myself.
Somehow...even though I know my own little hobby farm isn't 100% organic, nor it is perfect in any way...somehow...I still think I'm better off. We started with chickens for eggs, ended up getting 'straight run' chicks and then had extra roosters...processed and ate the roosters and thought...hmm...we could do this, it's not that hard. We at least knew how it had been raised and processed... Raising hogs is easy, though the butchering is time consuming and hard work, but it's been some of the best pork we've ever had. We have dairy goats - you know, it might be an even bigger risk drinking our own fresh, RAW milk...but I'd never drink milk from an outwardly sick goat, and I get them tested for a variety of other things yearly and have NEVER had any test come back positive. Goats were just another fun hobby, a pet to begin with, and then I really caught on to what that 'pet' could provide for us and I worked that angle. Gardening...like I said, I'm not so good at...but I have friends that ARE...so what I suck at doing myself, I can often trade for with meat we did process ourselves. They are known trusted sources that hold themselves to standards like I hold myself to at my home when it comes to cleanliness, and that means something to me.
There are a million other factors that play into WHY we raise and process as much as we can - but one of the biggest impacts has been what I have seen with my own 2 eyes and heard from other trusted sources to be the reality of the food industry. I just feel better in general eating by knowing things here lived a good life and where treated correctly from the very beginning to the very end, including how we process. Yes, occasionally we do still eat out and yes, there are some things I buy at the grocery store. I know I am never going to be 100% able to make or trade for everything I need through homegrown sources...but I feel better about it trying as much as I can to do so. I feel like I take less risk on someone else's poor decisions or unsanitary behaviors affecting my health - so "research" and "science" can attempt to prove a million things to me...but I will always know what is seen on paper after an inspection as a good, clean report on a safe place can also be drastically different once that inspector leaves the building.
There's nothing in the food industry like a bus person running through the kitchen whispering "Inspecion!" to get them to shape up back of house and change the outcome of an inspection - but the stuff I witnessed on camera when they thought no one was looking or even first hand when I was just another server and not management was enough to make me change my mind about what we did here at the house. I know it's not just restaurants - I've got a friend whose husband is in management with a HUGE grocery chain...the same things happened there and some of the stories we swapped were enough to change both our points of view on a lot. Since he went to work for the grocery store they RARELY eat out and produce what they can at the house too now.
Chickens in general started as a hobby for me. Since I met my husband, hunting had become a big part of my life through him, and growing up both our families had raised a ton of our own eggs and meat and such just as a hobby - something fun to do spending time with animals and the kids in the yard. We got the first chickens for ourselves as just that - a hobby - and while it still is by definition I suppose, since we don't make any money with it, it has also turned into something we believe in and have faith in as truly being better than what we could purchase either dining out or at the store. That hobby quickly became a way of life for us as we evaluated what I had witnessed in my day to day work life and really discussed not only where our food comes from but how much trust we put into the people producing it.
I worked in a froo froo seafood restaurant for a while...there's nothing in the world like going back to get sauce from the walk in fridge and finding 2 other servers hosting lobster races and taking bets ON THE FLOOR! All I could think was "someone is going to pay $30 for that lobster...and it's been running races on the floor where our dirty feet go back and forth"....yum...delicious and well worth $30 don't you think?
Or hearing from my friends husband how several staff members were caught smoking marijuana in the meat coolers...really? Pot infused beef...don't they sell that in Cali if you have glaucoma? And where did those ashes go anyways? It was just a gross thought all around...
My favorite of his was when he explained that sometimes, meat would be dropped, hit the floor, and the plastic wrapper would be broken, but they were expected just to rewrap it - to quote him as long as the health department wasn't there it never happened - the story to that "memo" was APPALLING...I didn't know the 10 second rule applied to something I hadn't even brought home yet...I thought it only meant stuff I dropped like m&ms...or chips...but according to him it was a common occurrence.
I suppose ON PAPER where our food comes from can be PORTRAYED as safe when we purchase things from grocery stores and food chains...but I also remember getting a 100% perfect score on a health department inspection...and then an hour later having to write up a cook for wiping an egg pan with his dirty apron before cracking 2 eggs for a breakfast sampler. If he had done that in front of her - we would have been in deep youknowwhat - but "luckily" for me he waited until he thought no one was looking and I happened to be watching the cameras in the office. A failed health inspection is as good as fired with the company I was with - but that was another defining moment for me in deciding where my meals would come from. Like I said, what people do when they know they are being watched and when they think no one is looking are often times 2 different things. I've seen it first hand - servers that NEVER wash their hands like they should doing it correctly because the inspector is there, cooks that don't actually temp things as they should ONLY doing their temperature checks because you walked up behind them at the right time...not everyone is evil or bad...but a good deal are lazy if you turn your back. It happens in grocery stores too and it eventually became enough to put me off of buying anything I could raise myself.
Somehow...even though I know my own little hobby farm isn't 100% organic, nor it is perfect in any way...somehow...I still think I'm better off. We started with chickens for eggs, ended up getting 'straight run' chicks and then had extra roosters...processed and ate the roosters and thought...hmm...we could do this, it's not that hard. We at least knew how it had been raised and processed... Raising hogs is easy, though the butchering is time consuming and hard work, but it's been some of the best pork we've ever had. We have dairy goats - you know, it might be an even bigger risk drinking our own fresh, RAW milk...but I'd never drink milk from an outwardly sick goat, and I get them tested for a variety of other things yearly and have NEVER had any test come back positive. Goats were just another fun hobby, a pet to begin with, and then I really caught on to what that 'pet' could provide for us and I worked that angle. Gardening...like I said, I'm not so good at...but I have friends that ARE...so what I suck at doing myself, I can often trade for with meat we did process ourselves. They are known trusted sources that hold themselves to standards like I hold myself to at my home when it comes to cleanliness, and that means something to me.
There are a million other factors that play into WHY we raise and process as much as we can - but one of the biggest impacts has been what I have seen with my own 2 eyes and heard from other trusted sources to be the reality of the food industry. I just feel better in general eating by knowing things here lived a good life and where treated correctly from the very beginning to the very end, including how we process. Yes, occasionally we do still eat out and yes, there are some things I buy at the grocery store. I know I am never going to be 100% able to make or trade for everything I need through homegrown sources...but I feel better about it trying as much as I can to do so. I feel like I take less risk on someone else's poor decisions or unsanitary behaviors affecting my health - so "research" and "science" can attempt to prove a million things to me...but I will always know what is seen on paper after an inspection as a good, clean report on a safe place can also be drastically different once that inspector leaves the building.
- Thread starter
- #23
Well! I'm pleasantly surprised at all of these answers. It's really great to get an insight to everyone's personal reasons for raising meat birds. Thank you so much for taking the time to reply! Keep them coming!!
Tam'ra of Rainbow Vortex :
A few months later an ornry roo needed to be removed from the flock, and the kids actually came and observed part of the skinning and cleaning (so did the dog, who has sworn never to eat chicken again now that he knows where it comes from. Seriously, my pup turns down raw poultry of any kind since he found out that it came from 'friends'. If I only had his willpower!) and they were ok with it.
Aww! That's kind of sad, but also precious.
A few months later an ornry roo needed to be removed from the flock, and the kids actually came and observed part of the skinning and cleaning (so did the dog, who has sworn never to eat chicken again now that he knows where it comes from. Seriously, my pup turns down raw poultry of any kind since he found out that it came from 'friends'. If I only had his willpower!) and they were ok with it.
Aww! That's kind of sad, but also precious.
- Thread starter
- #24
Quote:
There's where ya lost me. Most of the scientific studies proving the downside of organic gardening were financed by the growers/universities that do not support organic food industries and are threatened by the increase in farms moving in that direction. They can charge more for their produce and get it and this is something that must be squashed...
Anybody with half a grain of common sense could figure out that plants and animals not imbedded with chemicals that inhibit/enhance hormone production, suppress thiamine delivery, inhibit cellular function, etc. are better for your general health.
In this world, he who has the money, has the most "scientific proof".
I still have my paper, would you care to read it?
Actually I am interested in reading your paper if you don't mind? I've only recently started looking up articles on organic vs conventional, they're a very interesting read. I don't doubt that the people with more money are going to have a sway on what kind of information is out there, and really, I don't think the general public will ever know the full picture, but there's a lot of profit to be had on the trend for organic products and someone is going to want to take advantage of it.
There's where ya lost me. Most of the scientific studies proving the downside of organic gardening were financed by the growers/universities that do not support organic food industries and are threatened by the increase in farms moving in that direction. They can charge more for their produce and get it and this is something that must be squashed...
Anybody with half a grain of common sense could figure out that plants and animals not imbedded with chemicals that inhibit/enhance hormone production, suppress thiamine delivery, inhibit cellular function, etc. are better for your general health.
In this world, he who has the money, has the most "scientific proof".
I still have my paper, would you care to read it?
Actually I am interested in reading your paper if you don't mind? I've only recently started looking up articles on organic vs conventional, they're a very interesting read. I don't doubt that the people with more money are going to have a sway on what kind of information is out there, and really, I don't think the general public will ever know the full picture, but there's a lot of profit to be had on the trend for organic products and someone is going to want to take advantage of it.
- Thread starter
- #25
Quote:
I worked as a barista/deli person for half a year at a supermarket a handful of years back. Totally agree. The unprofessionalism of my co-workers was a big part in me giving my two weeks. It was the kind of job with a pretty steady turn over rate simply because most were students, but jeez, that doesn't mean you can treat the job more carelessly. Especially in the food service industry! I actually saw one of the girls lick the bread of someone's sandwich. I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't say anything. (Still working on getting a pair to call people out on that kind of bs.)
Sometimes I splurge and get a hot lunch from Whole Foods' open bar (not because it's WF or organic, but simply because it tastes really good!), but I always wonder about it since it basically operates on an honor system. You'll never really know if someone spit in it or someone let their kid mess around.
I worked as a barista/deli person for half a year at a supermarket a handful of years back. Totally agree. The unprofessionalism of my co-workers was a big part in me giving my two weeks. It was the kind of job with a pretty steady turn over rate simply because most were students, but jeez, that doesn't mean you can treat the job more carelessly. Especially in the food service industry! I actually saw one of the girls lick the bread of someone's sandwich. I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't say anything. (Still working on getting a pair to call people out on that kind of bs.)
Sometimes I splurge and get a hot lunch from Whole Foods' open bar (not because it's WF or organic, but simply because it tastes really good!), but I always wonder about it since it basically operates on an honor system. You'll never really know if someone spit in it or someone let their kid mess around.
Right...and then carry over that attitude into the people working in the factories processing our food...that's what REALLY worries me, more than anything...they are essentially factory workers, doing the same job day in day out...I can only imagine besides some of the videos on the internet what REALLY goes on in their part of the processing plant when one has a bad day...
Quote:
I still have my paper, would you care to read it?
Actually I am interested in reading your paper if you don't mind? I've only recently started looking up articles on organic vs conventional, they're a very interesting read. I don't doubt that the people with more money are going to have a sway on what kind of information is out there, and really, I don't think the general public will ever know the full picture, but there's a lot of profit to be had on the trend for organic products and someone is going to want to take advantage of it.
I don't mind, and sure don't mind if you use some of it, or some of my sources... as long as credit is due... send me a pm or email and I'll try to get it emailed to you tommorrow.
I think I still have it, after 5 years.
With my job, I'm supposed to be promoting Organic production- last year the fed gov had something like 100 million dollars to give out, and only gave out about 10 of it--soley to organic people it's set aside for... We're supposed to be promoting it as much as we can, and so I try to let everyone know both sides of the subject-- in a non defensice manor.
I still have my paper, would you care to read it?
Actually I am interested in reading your paper if you don't mind? I've only recently started looking up articles on organic vs conventional, they're a very interesting read. I don't doubt that the people with more money are going to have a sway on what kind of information is out there, and really, I don't think the general public will ever know the full picture, but there's a lot of profit to be had on the trend for organic products and someone is going to want to take advantage of it.
I don't mind, and sure don't mind if you use some of it, or some of my sources... as long as credit is due... send me a pm or email and I'll try to get it emailed to you tommorrow.
I think I still have it, after 5 years.
With my job, I'm supposed to be promoting Organic production- last year the fed gov had something like 100 million dollars to give out, and only gave out about 10 of it--soley to organic people it's set aside for... We're supposed to be promoting it as much as we can, and so I try to let everyone know both sides of the subject-- in a non defensice manor.
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- Thread starter
- #28
Quote:
There's where ya lost me. Most of the scientific studies proving the downside of organic gardening were financed by the growers/universities that do not support organic food industries and are threatened by the increase in farms moving in that direction. They can charge more for their produce and get it and this is something that must be squashed...
Anybody with half a grain of common sense could figure out that plants and animals not imbedded with chemicals that inhibit/enhance hormone production, suppress thiamine delivery, inhibit cellular function, etc. are better for your general health.
In this world, he who has the money, has the most "scientific proof".
I still have my paper, would you care to read it?
Actually science has proven, that many bacterial problems exist in organic type foodstuff, mainly produce- that do not occur in industrial type equalivents. Most noteably E-coli-- you see the organic producers, are not allowed to treat their produce with chemicals, to CLEAN, and disinfect with-- and so those pests remain on, and viable.
The second thing is manure application- yes most likely better for the enviroment than commercial fertilizer sources--yet worse for our human health- not just from contaminants, and bacteria- but from a whole host of 'unkilled' problems which have a direct link to the food product ingested by humans... whereas the commercial sector mines their product, or produces it in a lab-- irrelevently nothing of a problem coming with commercially oriented food stuff product...
More to come if you'd like... Even though it sounds as if you're an organic enthusist, and my typing would be a waste. I can tell you one thing- straight from an organic producer-- if not for the added bonus of being certified in row crop production-- there really is no
advantage to becoming certified. He says people care more about 'local', and straight from the farm-- as opposed to the label...
Far more people die each year from E-coli- than they do from fertililzer...
ETA- to my above thoughst, one paragraph that I forgot to type, but was thinking of.
But, that e.Coli wouldn't be so deadly virulent and resistant to antibiotics if the manure that fertilized the organic farm didn't come from the commercial dairy or feedlot where the animals were fed tons of antibiotics day in and day out, would it? This is where the problem really begins. It's a huge, vicious circle.
There's where ya lost me. Most of the scientific studies proving the downside of organic gardening were financed by the growers/universities that do not support organic food industries and are threatened by the increase in farms moving in that direction. They can charge more for their produce and get it and this is something that must be squashed...
Anybody with half a grain of common sense could figure out that plants and animals not imbedded with chemicals that inhibit/enhance hormone production, suppress thiamine delivery, inhibit cellular function, etc. are better for your general health.
In this world, he who has the money, has the most "scientific proof".
I still have my paper, would you care to read it?
Actually science has proven, that many bacterial problems exist in organic type foodstuff, mainly produce- that do not occur in industrial type equalivents. Most noteably E-coli-- you see the organic producers, are not allowed to treat their produce with chemicals, to CLEAN, and disinfect with-- and so those pests remain on, and viable.
The second thing is manure application- yes most likely better for the enviroment than commercial fertilizer sources--yet worse for our human health- not just from contaminants, and bacteria- but from a whole host of 'unkilled' problems which have a direct link to the food product ingested by humans... whereas the commercial sector mines their product, or produces it in a lab-- irrelevently nothing of a problem coming with commercially oriented food stuff product...
More to come if you'd like... Even though it sounds as if you're an organic enthusist, and my typing would be a waste. I can tell you one thing- straight from an organic producer-- if not for the added bonus of being certified in row crop production-- there really is no
advantage to becoming certified. He says people care more about 'local', and straight from the farm-- as opposed to the label...
Far more people die each year from E-coli- than they do from fertililzer...
ETA- to my above thoughst, one paragraph that I forgot to type, but was thinking of.
But, that e.Coli wouldn't be so deadly virulent and resistant to antibiotics if the manure that fertilized the organic farm didn't come from the commercial dairy or feedlot where the animals were fed tons of antibiotics day in and day out, would it? This is where the problem really begins. It's a huge, vicious circle.
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Quote:
I've worked in the ER in two towns with Tyson and a pork factory. Brutal hand injuries and people doing anything to get out of going out of work.
I've worked in the ER in two towns with Tyson and a pork factory. Brutal hand injuries and people doing anything to get out of going out of work.
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