It's an interesting question. I started raising dual purpose chickens about 2 years ago and I raised Freedom Rangers this past Spring and I've butchered both kinds. I also hunt, so I've killed animals for food before. I've decided that I actually have several types of relationships with animals. First, I have pet animals, dogs and cats, and I wouldn't kill them or eat them except under the most dire circumstances imaginable. Second, I have animals I raise for food (livestock) that I sometimes kill and eat. I don't enjoy the job but consider it necessary if I'm going to eat them. Next, I hunt, and I find the experience of the hunt enjoyable, the killing a component part. Finally there are animals such as rats and vermin that I kill occasionally to protect my other animals and homestead. I find that the more intimate my relationship is with the animal, the more reluctant I am to kill them, which I think is perfectly understandable. I don't believe the killing of animals per se is immoral or unethical, but everything does seem to depend on how close I am to the animal. To some extent then, it is all subjective. I can understand why some people chose to not kill any animal, but it is not something I believe myself. I do believe that if you're going to eat meat it is important to come to grips with what that means; an animal must die. I think hunting or raising livestock is a good way to face this moral issue head on. I don't think people who eat meat but don't hunt or kill their own animals hold the moral high ground, they just pay others to do their "dirty work". I think coming to grips with this reality makes me a more aware person, and I'm glad I do it. It also has its practical advantages. My eggs, chicken meat, and game meat are superior to the grocery store products and these animals lead a much happier life than the factory farm animals. I do this to the extent I can, but I still buy supermarket pork, beef, etc. I wish everyone had the opportunity to raise their own food, at least in part. I think they would appreciate their food more.
How meat birds have changed you
- Thread starter saltykins
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I grew up on a VERY divisified livestock and grain farm-- if needed, we could be completely self sustaining, and still have plenty of income from the farm. The way it is, we purchase milk (as it's healthier than straight from the tit), bread, cheese (both far easier to purchase than make), and whatever sweets we think 'we need'. That's about it.
We do most all of our own butchering- pork, lamb, goat, wild game, poultry, fish, and most of the time beef (unless we don't feel like tackling a 1500 lb animal and so we send it to the butcher shop). We, as a family, really enjoy this process.
My grandparents, are the only ones able to remain farming full time- my mom is a superintent of schools, my dad a full time welder/ machinst/ farmer. Both my wife and I work for the USDA. As a unit, we still manage to put out about 2500 acres of crop and hayland each year, and milk around 100 cows twice a day-- not to mention lamb out 80 ewes during the first three months of the year, and calve 20 beef cows during months 9 and 10; with no hired help.
The advantage of doing your own "food production", getting to know where, how, what all is involved with food production. Few too many people today, when asked "where does your food come from- respond the grocery store", and one of my favorite-- "chocolate milk comes from brown cows".
I butchered my first chicken at age 7, with the assistance of mom, dad, grandma, and an aunt- I shot my first deer a year later-- and gutted it by myself (with guideance of course). I put my first animal out of it's missery at age 10- and have never looked back. I'm 24 right now.
By learning, what I have... and done what I do-- I've come to the realization of the faults in people when it comes to death. Everything was put here for a reason- to live, die, and give some other organism benefit. When the justice needs done, it must be done; whatever the reason.
Do I trust my own homegrown food over industrial? Not really- but mostly. I know that we've butchered animals before without following withdrawl times- but it was for our own consumption; which was monitored closely. Do I feel the industrial butchering process and food chain is contaminated, or otherwise comprimised... most certainly not. I've walked through 2 pork and one beef slaughtering facility-- and can say what they do is far more sanitary and safe than what we do... And none of us are dead yet...
I have one setback, as to the encouragement of people to raise their own food-- most have zero idea on what they are doing, and very few of them actually have a justifyable reason on doing so. It's comparable to organic-- most often just a marketing pitch. Science has proven time and time again that the food's not any healthier, better for you, or safer (actually most of the time the opposite), it's mearly a "feel good option". I should know, in JuCo, I wrote a 14 page research paper against organic farming to an instructor who was an organic garder (got a A regardless); and now with my job I have to help promote it to everyone... So I've got a legit shot at seeing both sides of the subject.
ETA- b/c I was thinking it, and forgot it upon re-reading it...
Most people get into the process of growing their own food from a "cheaper" standpoint-- in all reality.. it's far more expensive-- it's cheaper to go to wally world and purchase a pair of tomatoes, a chicken breast, and an ear of sweet corn; and have a meal-- than it will ever be to grow it, take care of the soil, and take the time to do all of this. But to most people, it's actually 'cheaper'- if they feel better about it.
We do most all of our own butchering- pork, lamb, goat, wild game, poultry, fish, and most of the time beef (unless we don't feel like tackling a 1500 lb animal and so we send it to the butcher shop). We, as a family, really enjoy this process.
My grandparents, are the only ones able to remain farming full time- my mom is a superintent of schools, my dad a full time welder/ machinst/ farmer. Both my wife and I work for the USDA. As a unit, we still manage to put out about 2500 acres of crop and hayland each year, and milk around 100 cows twice a day-- not to mention lamb out 80 ewes during the first three months of the year, and calve 20 beef cows during months 9 and 10; with no hired help.
The advantage of doing your own "food production", getting to know where, how, what all is involved with food production. Few too many people today, when asked "where does your food come from- respond the grocery store", and one of my favorite-- "chocolate milk comes from brown cows".
I butchered my first chicken at age 7, with the assistance of mom, dad, grandma, and an aunt- I shot my first deer a year later-- and gutted it by myself (with guideance of course). I put my first animal out of it's missery at age 10- and have never looked back. I'm 24 right now.
By learning, what I have... and done what I do-- I've come to the realization of the faults in people when it comes to death. Everything was put here for a reason- to live, die, and give some other organism benefit. When the justice needs done, it must be done; whatever the reason.
Do I trust my own homegrown food over industrial? Not really- but mostly. I know that we've butchered animals before without following withdrawl times- but it was for our own consumption; which was monitored closely. Do I feel the industrial butchering process and food chain is contaminated, or otherwise comprimised... most certainly not. I've walked through 2 pork and one beef slaughtering facility-- and can say what they do is far more sanitary and safe than what we do... And none of us are dead yet...
I have one setback, as to the encouragement of people to raise their own food-- most have zero idea on what they are doing, and very few of them actually have a justifyable reason on doing so. It's comparable to organic-- most often just a marketing pitch. Science has proven time and time again that the food's not any healthier, better for you, or safer (actually most of the time the opposite), it's mearly a "feel good option". I should know, in JuCo, I wrote a 14 page research paper against organic farming to an instructor who was an organic garder (got a A regardless); and now with my job I have to help promote it to everyone... So I've got a legit shot at seeing both sides of the subject.
ETA- b/c I was thinking it, and forgot it upon re-reading it...
Most people get into the process of growing their own food from a "cheaper" standpoint-- in all reality.. it's far more expensive-- it's cheaper to go to wally world and purchase a pair of tomatoes, a chicken breast, and an ear of sweet corn; and have a meal-- than it will ever be to grow it, take care of the soil, and take the time to do all of this. But to most people, it's actually 'cheaper'- if they feel better about it.
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Science has proven
There's where ya lost me. Most of the scientific studies proving the downside of organic gardening were financed by the growers/universities that do not support organic food industries and are threatened by the increase in farms moving in that direction. They can charge more for their produce and get it and this is something that must be squashed...
Anybody with half a grain of common sense could figure out that plants and animals not imbedded with chemicals that inhibit/enhance hormone production, suppress thiamine delivery, inhibit cellular function, etc. are better for your general health.
In this world, he who has the money, has the most "scientific proof".
There's where ya lost me. Most of the scientific studies proving the downside of organic gardening were financed by the growers/universities that do not support organic food industries and are threatened by the increase in farms moving in that direction. They can charge more for their produce and get it and this is something that must be squashed...
Anybody with half a grain of common sense could figure out that plants and animals not imbedded with chemicals that inhibit/enhance hormone production, suppress thiamine delivery, inhibit cellular function, etc. are better for your general health.
In this world, he who has the money, has the most "scientific proof".
- May 13, 2008
- 10,684
- 193
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Quote:
well said, and very observant and right on the money, thanks for sharing it.
well said, and very observant and right on the money, thanks for sharing it.
Quote:
There's where ya lost me. Most of the scientific studies proving the downside of organic gardening were financed by the growers/universities that do not support organic food industries and are threatened by the increase in farms moving in that direction. They can charge more for their produce and get it and this is something that must be squashed...
Anybody with half a grain of common sense could figure out that plants and animals not imbedded with chemicals that inhibit/enhance hormone production, suppress thiamine delivery, inhibit cellular function, etc. are better for your general health.
In this world, he who has the money, has the most "scientific proof".
I still have my paper, would you care to read it?
Actually science has proven, that many bacterial problems exist in organic type foodstuff, mainly produce- that do not occur in industrial type equalivents. Most noteably E-coli-- you see the organic producers, are not allowed to treat their produce with chemicals, to CLEAN, and disinfect with-- and so those pests remain on, and viable.
The second thing is manure application- yes most likely better for the enviroment than commercial fertilizer sources--yet worse for our human health- not just from contaminants, and bacteria- but from a whole host of 'unkilled' problems which have a direct link to the food product ingested by humans... whereas the commercial sector mines their product, or produces it in a lab-- irrelevently nothing of a problem coming with commercially oriented food stuff product...
More to come if you'd like... Even though it sounds as if you're an organic enthusist, and my typing would be a waste. I can tell you one thing- straight from an organic producer-- if not for the added bonus of being certified in row crop production-- there really is no advantage to becoming certified. He says people care more about 'local', and straight from the farm-- as opposed to the label...
Far more people die each year from E-coli- than they do from fertililzer...
ETA- to my above thoughst, one paragraph that I forgot to type, but was thinking of.
There's where ya lost me. Most of the scientific studies proving the downside of organic gardening were financed by the growers/universities that do not support organic food industries and are threatened by the increase in farms moving in that direction. They can charge more for their produce and get it and this is something that must be squashed...
Anybody with half a grain of common sense could figure out that plants and animals not imbedded with chemicals that inhibit/enhance hormone production, suppress thiamine delivery, inhibit cellular function, etc. are better for your general health.
In this world, he who has the money, has the most "scientific proof".
I still have my paper, would you care to read it?
Actually science has proven, that many bacterial problems exist in organic type foodstuff, mainly produce- that do not occur in industrial type equalivents. Most noteably E-coli-- you see the organic producers, are not allowed to treat their produce with chemicals, to CLEAN, and disinfect with-- and so those pests remain on, and viable.
The second thing is manure application- yes most likely better for the enviroment than commercial fertilizer sources--yet worse for our human health- not just from contaminants, and bacteria- but from a whole host of 'unkilled' problems which have a direct link to the food product ingested by humans... whereas the commercial sector mines their product, or produces it in a lab-- irrelevently nothing of a problem coming with commercially oriented food stuff product...
More to come if you'd like... Even though it sounds as if you're an organic enthusist, and my typing would be a waste. I can tell you one thing- straight from an organic producer-- if not for the added bonus of being certified in row crop production-- there really is no advantage to becoming certified. He says people care more about 'local', and straight from the farm-- as opposed to the label...
Far more people die each year from E-coli- than they do from fertililzer...
ETA- to my above thoughst, one paragraph that I forgot to type, but was thinking of.
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No, you would never convince me that spraying perfectly "good and safe" chemicals and using fertilizers that both run off into our streams and cause cancer in lab animals(but not in humans, of course), kill our honeybees, kill our fish and beneficial insects and all the rest of the wonderful things industrial food farmers tout as just darn worth the cheap food they produce for the masses is healthier than me growing my own chickens and produce in my back yard without the use of those things.
You are free to consume those foods for your short lifetime and I'll continue to produce and consume the food that has kept me completely and totally healthy for the past 45 years, sonny!
You are free to consume those foods for your short lifetime and I'll continue to produce and consume the food that has kept me completely and totally healthy for the past 45 years, sonny!
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I started raising chickens shortly after graduating from college. We proccessed 10 cockerals on the 4th of July just 4 months after we got them in the mail. It was hard. It took all day for the 3 of us, totally inexperienced, to get them put into the freezer. I am the only one not overly squeemish about guts, so I did the brunt of the work once my roomies killed and plucked them. We kept the kids and dog inside, not wanting to upset them. A few months later an ornry roo needed to be removed from the flock, and the kids actually came and observed part of the skinning and cleaning (so did the dog, who has sworn never to eat chicken again now that he knows where it comes from. Seriously, my pup turns down raw poultry of any kind since he found out that it came from 'friends'. If I only had his willpower!) and they were ok with it. We have let them be present for proccessing since then, and they cry, but they like to say goodbye and thankyou to the roosters who will feed them. I feel that I am, in a sense, earning my right to eat meat byt taking responsibility for the entire proccess. The kids are learning that everything they eat was once alive, and are more able than many kids to understand why wasting food is disrespectful. It is draining emotionally, but there is also a small sense of pride in knowing that I can provide for myself. Also, knowing my birds had a better life than gorcery store fowl is comforting. I am hoping that over time I can reduce the meat consumption of my household to healthier and more sustainable levels and that raising our own meat birds helps make that goal seem important. We all agree we should eat less meat, but its so easy to buy chicken at the store and forget all bout its life because it is so delicious. I don't want to forget. I want to be responsible for what I eat, and to feel good about it. I am saddened by the animals that die so I can eat them, but I try to respect them as much as I can. I make sure nothing is wasted, that they are treated humanely, and that their lives are as pleasant as I can make them. I treat them no differently than my hens, save that they are penned to keep them from fighting with our flock roo. I still visit them and bring them treats. I name them. But in the end, I am the one who chooses who lives, and who dies. On the surface it feels cruel, but deeper down, I know it is right. If I am to eat meat, it should come from an animal I knew was treated with kindness. And I should conciously make the decision to end it's life; its only fair. I am to blame for its death and that is why I strive to cut back my meat consumption. I should not give in to easy at the expense of others.
I started raising chickens shortly after graduating from college. We proccessed 10 cockerals on the 4th of July just 4 months after we got them in the mail. It was hard. It took all day for the 3 of us, totally inexperienced, to get them put into the freezer. I am the only one not overly squeemish about guts, so I did the brunt of the work once my roomies killed and plucked them. We kept the kids and dog inside, not wanting to upset them. A few months later an ornry roo needed to be removed from the flock, and the kids actually came and observed part of the skinning and cleaning (so did the dog, who has sworn never to eat chicken again now that he knows where it comes from. Seriously, my pup turns down raw poultry of any kind since he found out that it came from 'friends'. If I only had his willpower!) and they were ok with it. We have let them be present for proccessing since then, and they cry, but they like to say goodbye and thankyou to the roosters who will feed them. I feel that I am, in a sense, earning my right to eat meat byt taking responsibility for the entire proccess. The kids are learning that everything they eat was once alive, and are more able than many kids to understand why wasting food is disrespectful. It is draining emotionally, but there is also a small sense of pride in knowing that I can provide for myself. Also, knowing my birds had a better life than gorcery store fowl is comforting. I am hoping that over time I can reduce the meat consumption of my household to healthier and more sustainable levels and that raising our own meat birds helps make that goal seem important. We all agree we should eat less meat, but its so easy to buy chicken at the store and forget all bout its life because it is so delicious. I don't want to forget. I want to be responsible for what I eat, and to feel good about it. I am saddened by the animals that die so I can eat them, but I try to respect them as much as I can. I make sure nothing is wasted, that they are treated humanely, and that their lives are as pleasant as I can make them. I treat them no differently than my hens, save that they are penned to keep them from fighting with our flock roo. I still visit them and bring them treats. I name them. But in the end, I am the one who chooses who lives, and who dies. On the surface it feels cruel, but deeper down, I know it is right. If I am to eat meat, it should come from an animal I knew was treated with kindness. And I should conciously make the decision to end it's life; its only fair. I am to blame for its death and that is why I strive to cut back my meat consumption. I should not give in to easy at the expense of others.
Quote:
everyone is entitled to their own opinion...
Here's how I look at it... you were alive when DDT was cool... i was not.. good luck outliving that- as well as aspestodes
Seriously though, I had a chemistry professor in college, put 2 tsp of Sevin bug dust into his coffee every morning, right in front of the class.. said it was as safe as sugar.
These hormones, antibodics, and other things you speak so downly towards... are they any different than medication that humans receive from the doctor? Is the human version of Penn any different than the animal form?
Personally, I've given myself LA200 (burns like an SOB), NuFlor (?? not much), Banamine (one drop will make your whole mouth numb), Ivomec (alchohl in it burns), and Panacur (tastes like strawberries)-- both IM and orally for various ailments and problems. I've inhaled terramyacen powder as well as cow manure. call me crazy.. but I'm alive and kicking...
As I tell my mom, today's not Sunday, and I don't want to hear your preaching.
Sorry, I just don't see it...
everyone is entitled to their own opinion...
Here's how I look at it... you were alive when DDT was cool... i was not.. good luck outliving that- as well as aspestodes
Seriously though, I had a chemistry professor in college, put 2 tsp of Sevin bug dust into his coffee every morning, right in front of the class.. said it was as safe as sugar.
These hormones, antibodics, and other things you speak so downly towards... are they any different than medication that humans receive from the doctor? Is the human version of Penn any different than the animal form?
Personally, I've given myself LA200 (burns like an SOB), NuFlor (?? not much), Banamine (one drop will make your whole mouth numb), Ivomec (alchohl in it burns), and Panacur (tastes like strawberries)-- both IM and orally for various ailments and problems. I've inhaled terramyacen powder as well as cow manure. call me crazy.. but I'm alive and kicking...
As I tell my mom, today's not Sunday, and I don't want to hear your preaching.
Sorry, I just don't see it...
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