How to Assist Hatch An Egg (Parrot) That Is Pipping Upside Down?

[Katy]

Yes, you're right it should be head bent over under the wing with the tip of the beak coming up and pushing on the air sac. Some people see the head bent down and assume it is hatching upside down, when it isn't.

 

[adrian]

Oh, no, he definitely wasn't like that. His head was completely pointed downwards, not at the bottom of the egg but facing the bottom of the egg. So his beak was nowhere near the air cell. I've got him wrapped up and in his egg, hopefully all will be well, but I don't know whether that will be the case. What would cause the chick to die in this situation? He is not bleeding, has not inhaled anything... And I'm keeping him moist. I suppose I want to know what could cause death so I can avoid that.

I wanted to post a picture to show basically what he looked like, except his position was worse. His head was touching his belly, beak near the yolk sac.

 

[silkiechicken]

Chicken chicks have been known to hatch "upside" down with no intervention necessary. They don't always do it right side up, so there is no need to assist.

 

[Katy]

What day are they on? I'm not sure when they get into their final position, but with that much yolk sac out yet, maybe he hadn't gotten into position yet. If your temps were a little low he could have been behind a bit.

 

[adrian]

The eggs tend to hatch in about 18-20 days, today is day 18. My temperatures were actually ideal for parrot eggs, so he would at least be internally pipping today even if he was to hatch on the latest day. Admittedly there is still a lot of yolk sac, but he was definitely struggling to internally pip, he was pressing against it with his back and twitching.

 

[Katy]

So is this a parrot or a chicken? If this is a chicken egg you "helped" him 3+ days too soon.

 

[Akane]

You very rarely can help a chick that has not pipped itself. There are far too many factors. It's pointless to do it with any egg that you aren't certain will have trouble (like trying to hatch a double yolker) because the attempt has more odds of killing one than leaving that egg to it's fate. Once you break away enough shell to see what's going on or pip the membrane for them you've ruined the eggs ability to hold in moisture and support the membrane. You then have to step in frequently to maintain the correct moisture which risks drying out or drowning the other eggs. If you can keep the moisture problem under control then you've got the increased risk of bleeding to death. Even if you don't break the blood vessels the chick is eventually going to start thrashing about as it absorbs the yolk. Normally this would be contained in an egg. The membrane would move with the chick and the chicks motions would break the shell bit by bit as it absorbed the blood and yolk. With the reinforcement of the egg gone and the membrane torn early it will tear farther and possibly through a blood vessels. I've had chicks cause themselves to bleed to death. The chick is also likely to push out of it's egg before the yolk is fully absorbed. Then you have the problem of a potentially ruptured yolk which leads to bleeding to death, infection, or the yolk drying up and at minimum making a weak chick or possibly causing other complications.

The risks really aren't worth it when the chick may still have hatched fine on it's own. I've had plenty of chicks not pip into the air sac and hatch just fine. They can pip straight through the shell if they have to. Some chicks also may not position fully until right before they hatch. A really rocking egg a couple days before hatch may be a chick that wasn't quite in the right spot and is rushing to reposition. Also candling within the last few days before hatch dries out the membrane making it harder for them to move around and potentially impossible for them to pip. Messing with your eggs will kill far more chicks than leaving them alone. I had my first 100% hatch a few weeks ago... I forgot my incubator was running.

I didn't mess with humidity, I didn't open the incubator to try to figure out where they were at or what might be wrong or be tempted to slip one out and candle it to see if they were in the air sacs yet. I forgot about them. You will kill far more chicks by candling and trying to help around hatching time than would die on their own. Even if you save one you may kill several others that would have hatched by themselves. Attempts to put humidity back in with spray bottles and adding more damp items just does not work the same as leaving the incubator alone. I've tried all sorts of methods and the hatch rate goes down when you are trying to counter your own actions and get an exact humidity by the numbers on the humidity gauge. When I did try to hatch double yolkers I put them in a seperate hatcher from the others so that opening the incubator and changing the humidity to match what those individual eggs needed did not kill the other eggs. If you really want to try to help chicks that you think won't hatch then I suggest getting a second incubator to put them into so you don't keep risking the others that are doing fine by opening the bator to take care of that one.

If you are having lots of chicks pip wrong or not pip at all you need to look at why and try to solve that problem rather than trying to figure out how to help them hatch after the problem exists. You'll have much better hatches. Drying out the membrane through checking on them after day 18 may be your problem. The humidity not being right throughout incubation could also be a problem from either making the air sac too big giving the chicks too little space to move or being too small for them to pip into easily. Setting pullet eggs will also result in more chicks that can't position right because of the odd pointed egg shape or the egg just being too small. Lots of things to troubleshoot and it's hard to tell if you even have a problem unless you leave a few hatches alone and see what you get without intervening.

 

[adrian]

Thank you for the advice.
Yes, it is a parrot egg, not a chicken egg. I know this is mostly a chicken site, but you all know a lot about hatching.
I have no other eggs in the incubator, just this one. I know this chick's life depends upon me keeping it moist and warm, and I am not bothered by the responsibility. I know it is better to leave the eggs alone, but when you are dealing with parrot eggs, from birds that cost significant amounts of money, you don't just do that. You have separate incubators for assisted hatches, because it actually saves you money in the long run. I'm not in this for the quantity of eggs hatched, I'm incubating these eggs and trying to assure that every baby that can be saved, is saved. I know I shouldn't just be fixing the consequences to my mistakes and it happened to be that I discovered my mistake too late. Sometimes that happens. Sometimes you realize your trusty hygrometer decided to die on you and it's too late, your humidity was way off. In those cases you have to deal with the consequences of your actions.

Also, parrot eggs are a lot more sensitive to humidity/temperature/turning, so unless you have an amazing incubator, as I do not, you can't just let the eggs be. Parrots are known to get malpositioned and die, far more often than chicks, and most of the eggs that can't pip the air cell will die. They are not hardy. They are not as developed. They are essentially like embryos compared to precocial chickens, ducks and geese.

When I made the topic I was curious about whether anyone had saved a chick that was unable to reach the air cell and would die without assistance, not whether I should let nature take its course or not. However, I managed to free its head and from the looks of its prior situation it would not have made it otherwise. So it's death vs. possible life, but either way it's a risky situation and I chose to do a risky thing, but the odds were not good to begin with.

Also, I wanted to ask: if a baby is chirping, is that a good sign? Does that mean it is breathing? Would a baby that is too young to be internally pipping be able to chirp?

 

[Katy]

Quote:
As soon as they start breathing they can chirp. I don't know if it's good sign or not. I've never hatched parrots, but the thinking on chickens and ducks is you don't help until you've reached the max number of days for incubation. I don't help since the outcome most of the time is not good. With his yolk sac it sounds as if he had at least couple of more days till he was ready to pip.

 

[adrian]

Well, I don't know, I've experienced similar things where the baby died inhaling the fluids in his egg while looking to be at the same time of development. If I had waited until day 20, it is very likely he would have already suffocated.