How to choose which rooster to keep?

[PrettyCoolChicks]

Hi folks,
I read a lot of articles about roosters and similar questions on the forums but there was a lot of observe them and you’ll know. So I’ve been observing a lot, but I still don’t know… is it better to cull from top or bottom of the pecking order? Does it even matter?

I have 4 cockerells, 3 pullets, all related from white leghorn moms x barnyard mix dad. They’re 6 month old. In the end, I need to keep one roo for protection from a drake and during free ranging. The idea is to eventually trade my keeper roo for an unrelated one, to fertilize hatching eggs in a year or two.

Here are the 4 boys, which one would you keep? Which one would you cull? And more importantly so I can learn how you think about this, why?

Blue is the largest, top of pecking order, but somehow i never saw him mount the hens. He is a bit of a bully. He calls the hens for treats but will also chase the lowest ranking hen off the food. He’s always first out of the coop when I call so I give him all treats first. He seems the most alert in terms of sounding the alarm. When I hold a tray with treats, and the hens start eating of it, he will firmly grab the edge of the tray and pull it towards him a bit, then release. I think its his way of telling the hens I’m carrying it for him.

Colorless is second in command, mates most often and is a bit rough sometimes ( or with some hens?) but does best at calling them for treats. He’s colorless because I couldn’t catch him to put a legband on. He also tries to mate with the empty bowl I use to carry treats in if i put them down while I’m doing something else.

Green is gentle mounting a hen and seems accepted, but otherwise unremarkable, possibly to not draw the other roos attention. He generally doesn’t seem to pay attention to me. He was the easiest to put a leg band on.

Yellow is the smallest and lowest on the pecking order. He doesn’t get any and is sometimes chased off by the three other roos. He has peck marks on his comb, more so than green. He perched on my back or shoulders a couple times, always from behind - unsure if he’s trying to find safety on me or thinks i’m the 4th hen, or if it is actually aggression. He unfortunately also was the only witness to me taking the first egg and took it out on my shoelaces for a couple of days. I carried him around, held him down, had him walk laps in the run and tried to rebuild trust by preening him a bit once he calms down. He’s been better since.

It’s all a bit in flux though, who mates who very much depends on the day, except for yellow who is always the underdog.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

colorless because I couldn’t catch him to put a legband on.

Hi, I can't answer your question for you but I can give you a little advice in this matter. Put the legband on him at night, while he's roosting. If at all possible, invest in a little headlamp with the red light option. This leaves your hands free and chickens don't see well in red light. You should be able to find one in the sports section at walmart. That's where I got mine and it was under $5. I treat all my chickens at night if I can, I'm too old and slow to chase chickens during the day!

 

[NatJ]

I need to keep one roo for protection from a drake and during free ranging. The idea is to eventually trade my keeper roo for an unrelated one, to fertilize hatching eggs in a year or two.

Yellow is the smallest and lowest on the pecking order. He doesn’t get any and is sometimes chased off by the three other roos. He has peck marks on his comb, more so than green. He perched on my back or shoulders a couple times, always from behind - unsure if he’s trying to find safety on me or thinks i’m the 4th hen, or if it is actually aggression. He unfortunately also was the only witness to me taking the first egg and took it out on my shoelaces for a couple of days. I carried him around, held him down, had him walk laps in the run and tried to rebuild trust by preening him a bit once he calms down. He’s been better since.

I would start by culling Yellow. From your description, I don't see any points in his favor. And since he did already attack you, that is a definite point against him.

Among the other three, I'm not really sure.

I see some good points about each one (Blue acting alert and warning the flock, Colorless being the best at calling the hens for treats, Green being gentle when mating.)

I also see some points against each one (Blue being rough and a bully with the hens, Colorless may be mating so often it will bother the hens and is sometimes rough, Green not being very noteworthy.) From what you said about Blue, I also worry that he might start to act aggressively toward you (but any of the others might do that too.)

So I would probably cull Yellow, then keep watching the rest for a while.

If you decide against any other specific one, cull him and keep watching.

For Colorless and Green, their behavior might change quite a bit if you remove the ones that are dominant to them. Penning up one or two dominant males may be a way to get a sense of how the subordinate ones act (but it could take several weeks to tell, not just a day or two.)

If you really have no better way to decide, I would keep Blue for two reasons:
--He is already alert and giving warnings, which is one of the main things you want
--He is dominant, so his behavior is not likely to change as much if you remove the others. Removing Blue would probably cause changes in the behavior of the others.

I do not feel that those reasons are enough to choose Blue over the others, just a possible fallback plan if you don't find any better way to decide.

 

[CoopBoots]

Can't see the pictures, did they attach?

Not an expert, but I've had my hands full of cockerels and one rooster and have a succession plan in place that includes three out of around 15 original candidates.

Having the boys outnumber the pullets and in close proximity probably does not show them off to greatest advantage, but my criteria are: human friendly/non aggressive, doesn't have to chase hens down, quick and graceful mating, no bullying, alerts to unusual activity or perceived threats with warning calls, and not the bottom of the pecking order. Bottom cocks seem to be something of a crapshoot if they get suddenly promoted so how they act now is not necessarily indicative of who they will be as a leader, and there's a lot of fearful submission to unlearn.

Nice to haves are: shares most or all treats, dances for the ladies, shows off nesting sites to the girls and the ladies actively seek him out. It helps if I like his crow, as I'll be hearing it a lot as well.

 

[Mrs. K]

I agree - that yellow goes and anything you don't like for what ever reason. Get two out of there, that will change how the remaining two act, wait, and cull again.

Another thing to consider is physical traits, and feathers can cover sins. It is a good thing to take a good look at their feet. A crooked toe can cause a lot of feather damage. The beak should be very symmetrical, and take a look at the comb, is that what you want. Sometimes all the roos will be the same, but any physical lack of perfection can be a criteria to let them go.

As for worrying about inbreeding, one does not really have to worry about than for several generations.

Mrs K

 

[PrettyCoolChicks]

Hi, I can't answer your question for you but I can give you a little advice in this matter. Put the legband on him at night, while he's roosting. If at all possible, invest in a little headlamp with the red light option. This leaves your hands free and chickens don't see well in red light. You should be able to find one in the sports section at walmart. That's where I got mine and it was under $5. I treat all my chickens at night if I can, I'm too old and slow to chase chickens during the day!

Oh that’s a great tip and i actually have a red headlamp like that already which i use whenever i put them to bed, just never thought to use it that way. I may have put the roosting bars higher than i can reach but that’s easily solved with a stepladder or something i guess

 

[PrettyCoolChicks]

Can't see the pictures, did they attach?

Not an expert, but I've had my hands full of cockerels and one rooster and have a succession plan in place that includes three out of around 15 original candidates.

Having the boys outnumber the pullets and in close proximity probably does not show them off to greatest advantage, but my criteria are: human friendly/non aggressive, doesn't have to chase hens down, quick and graceful mating, no bullying, alerts to unusual activity or perceived threats with warning calls, and not the bottom of the pecking order. Bottom cocks seem to be something of a crapshoot if they get suddenly promoted so how they act now is not necessarily indicative of who they will be as a leader, and there's a lot of fearful submission to unlearn.

Nice to haves are: shares most or all treats, dances for the ladies, shows off nesting sites to the girls and the ladies actively seek him out. It helps if I like his crow, as I'll be hearing it a lot as well.

That helps a lot with what to pay attention to, thanks. I hadn’t attached pics because all my roos look the same other than small differences in size, but added some now. Blue and his favorite hen behind him, colorless leg looks odd in the photo but it’s just him being mid turn, yellow by the fence. I can take a photo of green tomorrow. None of them are very good at posing for the camera haha.

I would start by culling Yellow. From your description, I don't see any points in his favor. And since he did already attack you, that is a definite point against him.

Among the other three, I'm not really sure.

I see some good points about each one (Blue acting alert and warning the flock, Colorless being the best at calling the hens for treats, Green being gentle when mating.)

I also see some points against each one (Blue being rough and a bully with the hens, Colorless may be mating so often it will bother the hens and is sometimes rough, Green not being very noteworthy.) From what you said about Blue, I also worry that he might start to act aggressively toward you (but any of the others might do that too.)

So I would probably cull Yellow, then keep watching the rest for a while.

If you decide against any other specific one, cull him and keep watching.

For Colorless and Green, their behavior might change quite a bit if you remove the ones that are dominant to them. Penning up one or two dominant males may be a way to get a sense of how the subordinate ones act (but it could take several weeks to tell, not just a day or two.)

If you really have no better way to decide, I would keep Blue for two reasons:
--He is already alert and giving warnings, which is one of the main things you want
--He is dominant, so his behavior is not likely to change as much if you remove the others. Removing Blue would probably cause changes in the behavior of the others.

I do not feel that those reasons are enough to choose Blue over the others, just a possible fallback plan if you don't find any better way to decide.

Thanks for the detailed response! Makes sense that yellow is unlikely to do the job and has to go first. There isn’t a lot of actual fighting between the roos happening so far, mostly posturing and chasing with minimal comb pecking, so I think culling yellow and watching the others another month is doable. I’d like to see how their personality settles nearer 1 year old if conflict levels and hen comfort permit.

I could divide the coop again in “integration mode” and keep blue in the one half of it without access to the run. But would that be enough to observe changes in behaviour if they can still see each other but not touch?

I agree - that yellow goes and anything you don't like for what ever reason. Get two out of there, that will change how the remaining two act, wait, and cull again.

Another thing to consider is physical traits, and feathers can cover sins. It is a good thing to take a good look at their feet. A crooked toe can cause a lot of feather damage. The beak should be very symmetrical, and take a look at the comb, is that what you want. Sometimes all the roos will be the same, but any physical lack of perfection can be a criteria to let them go.

As for worrying about inbreeding, one does not really have to worry about than for several generations.

Mrs K

I had not thought about checking their physical traits as they all look rather the same superficially, but things like crooked toes damaging feathers is a great point. What would I be looking for in a comb?

 

[peafowl_Lover]

I think you should keep green, because I kept a rooster at the top of the pecking order and he is horrible to me and the hens so now he's on his own. But just watch them things could change.

 

[LaFleche]

Going by your description and the pictures I would cull yellow.

Then I would watch to see which of the remaining cockerels is the one the pullets prefer to be around.

I would keep the drake separate as he can fatally damage the chickens when trying to mate.


Waiting for the picture of Green...

 

[NatJ]

I could divide the coop again in “integration mode” and keep blue in the one half of it without access to the run. But would that be enough to observe changes in behaviour if they can still see each other but not touch?

I think you would see some effects, but probably would see more effects if blue were more thoroughly "gone."

Effects that would definitely happen: Blue would not be actually chasing hens, and he could not physically interfere if any other male was trying to mate (some dominant males do this).

What would I be looking for in a comb?

If you are breeding purebred chickens, the standard for the breed will probably be very specific about how the comb should look. For mixes, just look for whether it bothers the chicken (like if it flops over and covers the eyes), and whether it looks nice or ugly to you (some people have strong opinions about what combs they like to see in their chickens, and some other people do not care.)

Combs with tall skinny points are more prone to frostbite, combs that are low and smooth are less prone to frostbite. (But if the skinny parts get frostbitten, they fall off, and it is not an issue the next year. So that problem is rather self-limiting.)