How to send your farmer to jail Update on Tester Amendment Post 239

[PaulaJoAnne]

Quote:
From article, so the people DID have a problem and until they were shut down, were not correcting the problem--as article implies (I bet the author would like to re-write it as he couldn't hide the one fact he used--think agenda not facts from this writer). Maybe some of you want to eat contaminated food by your "back to nature" friends, thank you I DON'T. So if in some of your worlds there are only 2 ways of thinking that Government is bad or government is good, put me in the government is good as I want a free country paid for with the lives of government workers (soldiers, police, firemen, etc), I want any size producers put out of business that sell contaminated products (yes, even that old widow who is organic but has contaminated products), I want people in Ag to have standards to farm by (in past we had morons who overused fertilizers, chemicals, etc with philosophy that if a little was good a lot was better).

Don't want GMO products, don't want farmers to use hybrid seed, pesticides, commercial fertilizers, go see 1920's production-before hybrid seed, pesticides and commercial fertilizers were available. Average corn crop was 50 bu/acre. People would be starving and there would be no overweight people at all. Think 1930's depression when only the Ag community had food. Some have NO idea what they wish for.

Quick question, why didn't they wear their hair nets? Why didn't they clean up the listeria on their own? Why were they disregarding health laws when it inconvienced them? Didn't even bother to chastise them but article rather held them up as martyrs, so sad.

Here is the deal. Forgetting to wear a hair net once is not something to shut down a farm. Listeria? It is in and on everything in our environment. Our Head of AG up here has admitted to this. All tests to date have been acceptable.
But the FDA by their own admission, is pushing for a ZERO tolerance in raw cheese. If they get their way, all raw cheese production in the US will end.
The entire rest of the world has thrived on raw cheese for eons. The US did as well.

All the independant tests done on the same samples were negative, whereas the samples that the FDA had done were positive.

A good place to start if you really want to dig in, is www.ftcldf.org Its the Farmer to Consumer Legal Defense Fund.

 

[seedcorn]

Here is the deal, follow the rules or don't. When you don't, expect to suffer the consequences. pretty simple. How much hair in your food is acceptable? When my wife gets a hair in the food, no big deal to me but when I'm buying it, NO HAIRS ARE ACCEPTABLE. I don't want any food that bypasses health issues because it's an inconvience to be able to be sold. Again, amazing to me that this type of incident is being held up as an example of the big, bad government.

You want something to complain about...........try the homeless, elderly, children, etc that we as people don't help on a daily basis because it's the "government's" job. WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT. Get involved, join Big Brothers/Big Sisters, volunteer at hospitals, retirement centers, call local county council ask who needs help and go do it.

All of us in Ag could tell true stories of the things that are done for people and NEVER ASK FOR ANYTHING BACK. We are a small 2% of America but are a proud, loyal group that takes care of their own. I apologize for rant but we also do our best to chastise/correct those that don't do it correctly and bring our profession disgrace.

 

[mame1616]

Booker81 - you are absolutely right. These farmers are everyday people, helpful and considerate - people you can count on. My issue is entirely with some of the companies they deal with, and the ridiculous regulations I've read about with which they are forced to comply. I will admit that most of my research has been about the affects of animal CAFOs, not commodities crops. I have found precious little good to read about them from the farmers that oversee them. And that is what they do - oversee - since the only thing they own is the debt. People like them are the backbone of this country, and are trying to do what's right in a situation that largely hampers them from achieving that goal.

Seedcorn, while you say that we only think interms of black and white - good and bad - about the gov't, you seem to think the same about farms that are regulated to death and under the thumb of huge corporations, and those that are smaller and on their own. Honestly, the gov't doesn't have that great a track record handling things, do you really want them in your food as much as they are? They haven't exactly improved its safety. Instead of demanding that the production line slow down at the slaughterhouse, they say it's now ok to irradiate meat instead. When the people demand labeling for that irradiated meat, they would not put it through, because it would be unfair to the producer. Now - who's side are they on? I will take food from a small, naturally producing farmer any day. This world is entirely capable of feeding its population, but not until Big Ag stops holding everyone hostage.

Katy, I was speaking hypothetically - of course I don't think a farmer would limit himself by only growing one crop. I was comparing a grower who has a contract with Monsanto or other company to a small farmer who grows enough different items to satisfy the diet of several people in his/her community - meat, fruit, vegetables, etc. I think that Big Ag will get to the point where it can grow no bigger, but by that time people will have lost the ability to provide food for themselves. Smaller farmers who provide food for their communities will be where the safe food is.

I do not wish to go back to unregulated food. However, you cannot say that our food supply now is safe. There are simply not enough inspectors, and they are not performing the right kinds of inspections. A visual test cannot tell you if a cow is infected with BSE. The big corporations have too much power in the gov't, and that malarky about Ag being a small community and that's why Monsanto ex-cronies have all the high-ranking USDA positions? They are not about to let the "back to nature" people, as seedcorn called them, take away one dollar from their pockets. The FDA jumps on these small producers, like the ones in the article, for insignificant, ridiculous infractions. Any new, small enterprise takes money away from the big companies, so they demand regulations that only the big companies can comply with and set fines only the big companies can pay. Hair nets?! And no one was even sick? How about trying to take your small herd of grass-fed cattle to an abattoir contracted or owned by Big Ag - they will not let you in. They are also regulating the smaller abattoirs out of business, requiring a minimum # they can't keep up with. So the smaller farmer has nowhere to go, except out of business, or to Big Ag.

Please, I don't want this thread shut down. This is a volatile issue, and everyone has good points. I don't want to start a fight with anyone, but I am always seeking to learn. The articles help, as well as the links to other information. Learning from each other and trying to understand another person's point of view is the best way to resolve any conflict. Who knows what wonderful insights we might gain from a group of such diverse minds?

 

[seedcorn]

Honestly, the gov't doesn't have that great a track record handling things

Government regs have cleaned up our streams, rivers from farmer pollution, cut down on the use/amount of chemicals, made safer our food supply, etc. It's been small but steady so that when you look at where we are from where we've been, it's quite impressive. As a kid in 50's, 60's, we had ditch banks filled w/top soil, steams w/extra P, K, & N. Fish kills from run off chemicals--now when you read of these problems it's industry or city people. For all of us raised in the 50's 60's, the food is much safer, altho w/processed food an argument can be made not as good for you w/sugars, salt, etc but that is personnal life style choice not a disease (health) issue. Want to see changes, look at 3rd world producers, their food supply VS. ours. We've come a LONG way.

Again, how much hair is acceptable in your bought food? How much bacteria is acceptable? If we stop modern techniques for food production, how much of an increase in your food bill is acceptable?

For small livestock people, sell your animals to a local butcher as some of the commercial slaughter houses can not deal w/a bunch of small loads for a variety of reasons. Or better yet, find those that hate commercial ag and sell the animals to them & let them process them. I always wonder about those that complain about commercial ag but yet go to any supermarket to buy food who buy their food from professional, industry people. There are alternatives, use them, support them.​

 

[Q9]

I have WHAT in my yard? :

Quote:
150 years puts us precisely at 1860. 1861 is the start of the civil war. As a proud confederate do you still wish out of the union? Just askin'

You nailed it. I just rounded to 150 - to be more specific, 149 years ago is when the Constitution was killed. First unilateral declaration of war by a president, first unilateral suspension of habeas corpus, first major incident of martial law, and so on. To my knowledge, first eerily clever war-starting maneuver in US history, as well.

As I said, this bill needs to be killed, if for no other reason than the fact that it's illegal. Of course, that argument won't faze anyone in Congress, so the other options involve exercising - brace yourself - States' Rights. Nullification first, of course.​

 

[PaulaJoAnne]

Quote:
Government regs have cleaned up our streams, rivers from farmer pollution, cut down on the use/amount of chemicals, made safer our food supply, etc. It's been small but steady so that when you look at where we are from where we've been, it's quite impressive. As a kid in 50's, 60's, we had ditch banks filled w/top soil, steams w/extra P, K, & N. Fish kills from run off chemicals--now when you read of these problems it's industry or city people. For all of us raised in the 50's 60's, the food is much safer, altho w/processed food an argument can be made not as good for you w/sugars, salt, etc but that is personnal life style choice not a disease (health) issue. Want to see changes, look at 3rd world producers, their food supply VS. ours. We've come a LONG way.

Again, how much hair is acceptable in your bought food? How much bacteria is acceptable? If we stop modern techniques for food production, how much of an increase in your food bill is acceptable?

For small livestock people, sell your animals to a local butcher as some of the commercial slaughter houses can not deal w/a bunch of small loads for a variety of reasons. Or better yet, find those that hate commercial ag and sell the animals to them & let them process them. I always wonder about those that complain about commercial ag but yet go to any supermarket to buy food who buy their food from professional, industry people. There are alternatives, use them, support them.

Listeria is on every surface around us. Or at least it used to be. Now we use bleach on eveything, wiping out all the good stuff, but not the real bad stuff, allowing the bad to grow beyond its natural bounds.

Again, the hair net issue is important, but, you do not take away the entire business for one infraction. Instead, its written up, worked on and followed up on. Period. I have never heard of restaurants being shut down because a hair net was forgotten once

 

[Katy]

Quote:

 

[PaulaJoAnne]

This link says it much better then I can.
http://www.slashfood.com/2010/11/11/are-raw-milk-cheeses-safe/

"It is definitely possible to make [raw-milk cheese] safely, but you need very good controls all the way through the process," says another anonymous cheesemaker. "I think you would need to have your own milk supply and the raw-milk supply must be of top quality." Unfortunately, the FDA is not offering any advice as to how the cheesemaking process needs to be perfected.Clearly, raw-milk cheeses are not inherently dangerous. Otherwise, most French people, who eat raw-milk cheeses on a regular basis, would be suffering from Listeria. The dangers have to do with its handling -- leaving it out in the wrong temperature and being handled by too many people in different environments. Even the FDA is starting to question the law that states that raw-milk cheeses must be aged over 60 days in order to be sold, legally. "In fact, scientists have since shown that some pathogens -- strains of Salmonella, Listeria and E. coli -- can survive in cheese beyond 60 days," says Janet Fletcher. Fletcher suggests that the FDA may be going after the wrong ingredient: "One recent study of European washed-rind cheeses found almost twice as much Listeria in the pasteurized samples than in the raw-milk samples."​

 

[ivan3]

PaulaJoAnne wrote:
The FDA has released the paperwork from the last two raids they did. Absolutly NONE of it followed protical, and, all the tests were inconclusive. And within range.
And yet the dairies are shut down, 1/2 a million dollars worth of goods were confiscated, and all the goods were put under embargo to be destroyed. All without evidence.

I will leave you all with this, as its getting late here, and our wedding Anniversary is tommorow. I have a few things to do.

http://www.thecompletepatient.com/j...er-fda-as-federal-food-safety-legislatio.html

The Washington State Dept. Of Agriculture report of what they alerted to during their routine inspection, that got this ball rolling, would be something I'd want to examine before commenting further.
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm224990.htm

TennesseeTruly wrote:

ivan3 wrote:

seedcorn wrote: We've irradicated a whole host of diseases by quarantining certain areas that had diseases and then destroyed the disease carriers........... Go to a swap meet, look at all the sick animals, that those small "producers" are trying to pawn off on some innocent

Absolutely. The best recent example regarding live poultry:

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/IvanIvanovich/info.jpg

The cost to the taxpayer: 138.9 million dollars to clean up the mess. Another 395 million lost in direct and indirect trade.

Let me tell YOU about END. Under the guise of END, many homes were raided and peoples exotic parrots were taken and destroyed in California. They said that they were in danger of spreading END. When these birds were necropsied, NONE of the birds had Newcastles.​

The State of California declared the emergency and the FDA arrived to assist.
Yes, and the owners filed a case: http://www.upc-online.org/poultry_diseases/4303petition.htm However, I can find no disposition to this case in the Superior Court's Barstow division (where it was filed) and, of course, the LA Superior C. is offline today. Did the owner's reach a settlement, or was it tossed out? It is sad that some owners had to eat California's continuing toleration for a certain `cultural practice' of a politically powerful minority but, there it is (the practice remains a misdemeanor?). The high prices paid for the `gamebirds' was probably to draw out as many of these practioners as possible from the shadows. One of the better breakdowns in `payouts' is found in an AP report: http://www.puertorico-herald.org/issues/2003/vol7n30/fedsPay-en.html

If you remember the H5N1 `scare' that the media had a field day with (they never mentioned that the Vector Lab at the University of Pittsburgh had developed a 100% effective vaccine for chickens and were well on their way to producing a recombinant vaccine for humans - could be produced in months - publically funded research), I was more worried about the general public - yeah, we even get threads here about roosters laying eggs. If the disease had spread into the United States and started moving vigorously into the human population I'd have been more worried that a bunch of idiots would show up here with pitch forks and torches, than I would about the Missouri Dept. of Ag.

Q9 wrote
I will say this - the government is royally screwing over the American population, and has been for the past 150 years or more. This bill is just the latest. They will bend and twist anything, no matter how well intentioned, and the wording of this bill gives them tremendous leeway. The last thing the Establishment wants is the independent spirit fostered by small farms and backyard gardens.

It's time we taught the politicians a painful lesson. This bill is not permitted in the Constitution, so kill it! Tear it up and burn it, then tar and feather the politicians who support it! Whatever else may be said, this thing is unconstitutional, and it needs to DIE.
150 years puts us precisely at 1860. 1861 is the start of the civil war. As a proud confederate do you still wish out of the union? Just askin'
You nailed it. I just rounded to 150 - to be more specific, 149 years ago is when the Constitution was killed. First unilateral declaration of war by a president, first unilateral suspension of habeas corpus, first major incident of martial law, and so on. To my knowledge, first eerily clever war-starting maneuver in US history, as well.

Am I to assume that you believe that the 3/5th compromise ( Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3) shouldn't have been superseded by the 13th Amendment? Or, that the 3/5th rule wasn't unfair government support for a certain `privileged' class of businessmen?
Simple yes or no answers would be appreciated as this is off-topic, anyway.

Still waiting for someone to post anything from this bill that will amend the 2002 Bioterrorism act (beyond changing frequency of inspection of already regulated facilities).

ed:formatting​

 

[PaulaJoAnne]

This Bill will require that ALL food is tracked. And that includes food from the local farmers market and roadside stand.

As to the tip to raid the farm, remember that it was only the samples that the government sent in to be tested that came back positive. The dairy had independant testing done on the same cheese and it came back negative.
I want to know how that cheese was handled.