How to send your farmer to jail Update on Tester Amendment Post 239
- Thread starter PaulaJoAnne
- Start date
Quote:
IF you were in Ag, you would. Every acre planted, grown, harvested is regulated if you use GMO's, fertilizer (both manure & or commercial), pesticides by the government. There are no government regs if you are non-GMO, non-federal programs, non-fertilizer or pesticides. Your choice.
The size of the farmer is not who provides food but the productive farmer is. Corn is now $5+ and according to one buyer (talked to him today) could be on it's way to $7. Their concept is that our current government will make laws to stop the rise of food prices while not controlling the rising increase cost of inputs. Most farmers are incorporated due to taxes. So when you bad mouth corporations, you are bad mouthing most "family" farms as well.
The whole farming community causes LESS pollution than your average suburb. Too many part time, "get back to nature" people have NO idea how to use pesticides or manure. Yes, over-use of manure causes major pollution problems.
zazouse, love the picture........can't imagine the P, K and N levels on that piece of dirt........soil sample would be out of bounds numbers. Hate to think of the amount of run off after a rain, criminal.
Ag is a small community so it's no surprise that the USDA people worked for some corporation at some point. The alternative is someone who has NO idea what AG is about setting up government regs for us in the industry--kind of like we got now.
Potash hasn't been $90/ton for decades.
ps, still waiting for names of those in federal pens for breaking no laws.
Wow, do you know I've never actually had a conversation about agriculture with a person who supported the government before? You're the first. And, I'm sure you're a nice person and a very hard worker, but I hope you're the last. It's pretty frightening.
I suppose, then, that I meant to say that there should be no regulations for GMOs except for those prohibiting their use, ever. There should never be a need for all the chemicals and pesticides. There should never be a need for regulations regarding the millions of tons of manure flowing out of CAFOS everyday, because they shouldn't exist. When I say I see no evidence that the Gov't does not favor GMOs, it's because they are still allowed to exist, and the gov't goes right along with it. It only puts regulations in place so they can say they've done something, as opposed to nothing. Big Ag has their finger in everything - they aren't about to let that go. They are ruining this country, and its ability to support itself. What will Bill Ag do when they use up the Ogallala Aquifer, which they have been draining for years?
You said a farm is about it's production, not size. How many families can a farmer feed if he only grows corn on his 1000 acres? Now, how many families can a farmer feed on his 250 acre diversified farm? Obviously, production is a relative term. (I'm talking about real food here, not manufactured food.)
I am not badmouthing family farms, either - I feel sorry for them that they felt that giving in to the corporate giants were the only way to survive. Sometimes it is, but it doesn't make the farmers wrong or bad people. Big Ag is wrong for taking advantage of them, and it seems no one is willing to stop them. So, I plan to go around them, at least until they regulate me, and my few hundred chickens, out of business for telling the truth about manufactured food. That is more frightening to them than any lawsuit of newspaper article - that consumers will finally know the truth.
IF you were in Ag, you would. Every acre planted, grown, harvested is regulated if you use GMO's, fertilizer (both manure & or commercial), pesticides by the government. There are no government regs if you are non-GMO, non-federal programs, non-fertilizer or pesticides. Your choice.
The size of the farmer is not who provides food but the productive farmer is. Corn is now $5+ and according to one buyer (talked to him today) could be on it's way to $7. Their concept is that our current government will make laws to stop the rise of food prices while not controlling the rising increase cost of inputs. Most farmers are incorporated due to taxes. So when you bad mouth corporations, you are bad mouthing most "family" farms as well.
The whole farming community causes LESS pollution than your average suburb. Too many part time, "get back to nature" people have NO idea how to use pesticides or manure. Yes, over-use of manure causes major pollution problems.
zazouse, love the picture........can't imagine the P, K and N levels on that piece of dirt........soil sample would be out of bounds numbers. Hate to think of the amount of run off after a rain, criminal.
Ag is a small community so it's no surprise that the USDA people worked for some corporation at some point. The alternative is someone who has NO idea what AG is about setting up government regs for us in the industry--kind of like we got now.
Potash hasn't been $90/ton for decades.
ps, still waiting for names of those in federal pens for breaking no laws.
Wow, do you know I've never actually had a conversation about agriculture with a person who supported the government before? You're the first. And, I'm sure you're a nice person and a very hard worker, but I hope you're the last. It's pretty frightening.
I suppose, then, that I meant to say that there should be no regulations for GMOs except for those prohibiting their use, ever. There should never be a need for all the chemicals and pesticides. There should never be a need for regulations regarding the millions of tons of manure flowing out of CAFOS everyday, because they shouldn't exist. When I say I see no evidence that the Gov't does not favor GMOs, it's because they are still allowed to exist, and the gov't goes right along with it. It only puts regulations in place so they can say they've done something, as opposed to nothing. Big Ag has their finger in everything - they aren't about to let that go. They are ruining this country, and its ability to support itself. What will Bill Ag do when they use up the Ogallala Aquifer, which they have been draining for years?
You said a farm is about it's production, not size. How many families can a farmer feed if he only grows corn on his 1000 acres? Now, how many families can a farmer feed on his 250 acre diversified farm? Obviously, production is a relative term. (I'm talking about real food here, not manufactured food.)
I am not badmouthing family farms, either - I feel sorry for them that they felt that giving in to the corporate giants were the only way to survive. Sometimes it is, but it doesn't make the farmers wrong or bad people. Big Ag is wrong for taking advantage of them, and it seems no one is willing to stop them. So, I plan to go around them, at least until they regulate me, and my few hundred chickens, out of business for telling the truth about manufactured food. That is more frightening to them than any lawsuit of newspaper article - that consumers will finally know the truth.
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For amusement, I searched out a few of the local farms here that I personally know and grew up around.
I found instead a site for "Citizens for Environmental Sustainability", which lists the state licenses for CAFO Permits. They wish to eliminate these "abominations" one and all.
I read through the list, and saw many of the farms I grew up around, many of the folks I know personally, saw around town, folks who when we had a tornado hit our farm (not a CAFO heh, just a horse breeding and training farm), came out and brought their equipment, food, water, and supplies. We didn't need to rent or pay for the equipment to clean up the disaster, the "CAFO" owners brought out their heavy equipment and bulldozed and piled it for burning. When it was burned, they came back and buried it (we pulled the proper permits). Free. They hauled in water from their farms to water the horses left. They hauled in their feed to feed the horses, and stored what hay we could salvage. They cooked meals and brought them to us. Free.
When we had a dump truck get stuck behind the barn, they brought their 8 wheel tractor (similar to an MT900)over and hauled him out. Free.
This is ag land out here. Though many of the old farmers from my childhood now spend their time at the diner drinking coffee all day, their children my age have degrees in Ag Management and are running their "CAFO's" with a whole heap of chemical knowledge, research and willingness to try and keep up with demand for more, faster, cheaper and better. They aren't burecrats. Most of these farms have proudly displayed the Centennial farm signs - showing that this is a farm that has been worked and owned by the same family for over 100 years. One of them is about 4000 acres. The son now running it is my age, and a pleasant person to deal with, especially when his "pet" longhorns got loose and invaded the horse farm (which my brother now runs with his wife).
So, while it's easy to darn CAFO's, the term is loose, and you might be damning the very people who make up a community, even a small one such as these areas.
As for GMO's, the biggest I'm betting that is darn is RoundUp Ready. I agree, I don't care for Monsanto's blacklisting of seed washers, they're so small it's almost insignificant. I'm not quite sure I like the effects it potentially causes, but then, I'm not really big on soy - it doesn't like me. However, I remember when it came out, and the disbelief these guys had, the skepticism. Something that would magically be tolerant of being sprayed, so you could kill the weeds but not the beans? Bull pucky! Cutting how many hours and dollars in the field? No way. However, it did work, and as long as the weather cooperated, much higher yields resulted, which meant more of a chance of possibly breaking even or close to it. These CAFO guys aren't getting rich on anything - they still drive beat up trucks, live in small farmhouses, and while they may mortgage their farm for a new tractor every 10 years, most of the equipment they use is ancient, tied together with twine and mud it seems.
I'm rambling, but while it's easy to paint CAFOs and GMO with a broad red brush, it's not as easy when these are the folks you live and grew up with. There are no big businessmen around here with fancy stuff. There are no greased palms. Just a bunch of folks who make a living feeding the world and barely get by doing so. They smell like the manure they spray sometimes, but they are still the first ones there to help out when anyone needs help. The old guys didn't go to college, they didn't have to. The young guys now did go to college, and have to in order to sort out the regulations and restrictions, learn to chemistry and management, taxation and business. They have to in order to keep up with ever changing demands of safety and public concern, but they are still the same hard working, helpful, down to earth folks that they were born to. I'm not going to darn them.
I found instead a site for "Citizens for Environmental Sustainability", which lists the state licenses for CAFO Permits. They wish to eliminate these "abominations" one and all.
I read through the list, and saw many of the farms I grew up around, many of the folks I know personally, saw around town, folks who when we had a tornado hit our farm (not a CAFO heh, just a horse breeding and training farm), came out and brought their equipment, food, water, and supplies. We didn't need to rent or pay for the equipment to clean up the disaster, the "CAFO" owners brought out their heavy equipment and bulldozed and piled it for burning. When it was burned, they came back and buried it (we pulled the proper permits). Free. They hauled in water from their farms to water the horses left. They hauled in their feed to feed the horses, and stored what hay we could salvage. They cooked meals and brought them to us. Free.
When we had a dump truck get stuck behind the barn, they brought their 8 wheel tractor (similar to an MT900)over and hauled him out. Free.
This is ag land out here. Though many of the old farmers from my childhood now spend their time at the diner drinking coffee all day, their children my age have degrees in Ag Management and are running their "CAFO's" with a whole heap of chemical knowledge, research and willingness to try and keep up with demand for more, faster, cheaper and better. They aren't burecrats. Most of these farms have proudly displayed the Centennial farm signs - showing that this is a farm that has been worked and owned by the same family for over 100 years. One of them is about 4000 acres. The son now running it is my age, and a pleasant person to deal with, especially when his "pet" longhorns got loose and invaded the horse farm (which my brother now runs with his wife).
So, while it's easy to darn CAFO's, the term is loose, and you might be damning the very people who make up a community, even a small one such as these areas.
As for GMO's, the biggest I'm betting that is darn is RoundUp Ready. I agree, I don't care for Monsanto's blacklisting of seed washers, they're so small it's almost insignificant. I'm not quite sure I like the effects it potentially causes, but then, I'm not really big on soy - it doesn't like me. However, I remember when it came out, and the disbelief these guys had, the skepticism. Something that would magically be tolerant of being sprayed, so you could kill the weeds but not the beans? Bull pucky! Cutting how many hours and dollars in the field? No way. However, it did work, and as long as the weather cooperated, much higher yields resulted, which meant more of a chance of possibly breaking even or close to it. These CAFO guys aren't getting rich on anything - they still drive beat up trucks, live in small farmhouses, and while they may mortgage their farm for a new tractor every 10 years, most of the equipment they use is ancient, tied together with twine and mud it seems.
I'm rambling, but while it's easy to paint CAFOs and GMO with a broad red brush, it's not as easy when these are the folks you live and grew up with. There are no big businessmen around here with fancy stuff. There are no greased palms. Just a bunch of folks who make a living feeding the world and barely get by doing so. They smell like the manure they spray sometimes, but they are still the first ones there to help out when anyone needs help. The old guys didn't go to college, they didn't have to. The young guys now did go to college, and have to in order to sort out the regulations and restrictions, learn to chemistry and management, taxation and business. They have to in order to keep up with ever changing demands of safety and public concern, but they are still the same hard working, helpful, down to earth folks that they were born to. I'm not going to darn them.
Good post.
Quote:
Absolutely. The best recent example regarding live poultry:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/IvanIvanovich/info.jpg
The cost to the taxpayer: 138.9 million dollars to clean up the mess. Another 395 million lost in direct and indirect trade.
Let me tell YOU about END. Under the guise of END, many homes were raided and peoples exotic parrots were taken and destroyed in California. They said that they were in danger of spreading END. When these birds were necropsied, NONE of the birds had Newcastles.
Today the government denies that it ever raided peoples homes and STOLE their parrots but it happened.
That's what happens when people start to panic and when BIG BROTHER gets too big for its britches!
Absolutely. The best recent example regarding live poultry:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c331/IvanIvanovich/info.jpg
The cost to the taxpayer: 138.9 million dollars to clean up the mess. Another 395 million lost in direct and indirect trade.
Let me tell YOU about END. Under the guise of END, many homes were raided and peoples exotic parrots were taken and destroyed in California. They said that they were in danger of spreading END. When these birds were necropsied, NONE of the birds had Newcastles.
Today the government denies that it ever raided peoples homes and STOLE their parrots but it happened.
That's what happens when people start to panic and when BIG BROTHER gets too big for its britches!
Booker 81, nice words with a real understanding of 2010 Ag and it's people. Some are real &*(^&*% and some aren't. We're people.
in cleaning up its operation and significantly reducing the presence of listeria
From article, so the people DID have a problem and until they were shut down, were not correcting the problem--as article implies (I bet the author would like to re-write it as he couldn't hide the one fact he used--think agenda not facts from this writer). Maybe some of you want to eat contaminated food by your "back to nature" friends, thank you I DON'T. So if in some of your worlds there are only 2 ways of thinking that Government is bad or government is good, put me in the government is good as I want a free country paid for with the lives of government workers (soldiers, police, firemen, etc), I want any size producers put out of business that sell contaminated products (yes, even that old widow who is organic but has contaminated products), I want people in Ag to have standards to farm by (in past we had morons who overused fertilizers, chemicals, etc with philosophy that if a little was good a lot was better).
Don't want GMO products, don't want farmers to use hybrid seed, pesticides, commercial fertilizers, go see 1920's production-before hybrid seed, pesticides and commercial fertilizers were available. Average corn crop was 50 bu/acre. People would be starving and there would be no overweight people at all. Think 1930's depression when only the Ag community had food. Some have NO idea what they wish for.
Quick question, why didn't they wear their hair nets? Why didn't they clean up the listeria on their own? Why were they disregarding health laws when it inconvienced them? Didn't even bother to chastise them but article rather held them up as martyrs, so sad.
From article, so the people DID have a problem and until they were shut down, were not correcting the problem--as article implies (I bet the author would like to re-write it as he couldn't hide the one fact he used--think agenda not facts from this writer). Maybe some of you want to eat contaminated food by your "back to nature" friends, thank you I DON'T. So if in some of your worlds there are only 2 ways of thinking that Government is bad or government is good, put me in the government is good as I want a free country paid for with the lives of government workers (soldiers, police, firemen, etc), I want any size producers put out of business that sell contaminated products (yes, even that old widow who is organic but has contaminated products), I want people in Ag to have standards to farm by (in past we had morons who overused fertilizers, chemicals, etc with philosophy that if a little was good a lot was better).
Don't want GMO products, don't want farmers to use hybrid seed, pesticides, commercial fertilizers, go see 1920's production-before hybrid seed, pesticides and commercial fertilizers were available. Average corn crop was 50 bu/acre. People would be starving and there would be no overweight people at all. Think 1930's depression when only the Ag community had food. Some have NO idea what they wish for.
Quick question, why didn't they wear their hair nets? Why didn't they clean up the listeria on their own? Why were they disregarding health laws when it inconvienced them? Didn't even bother to chastise them but article rather held them up as martyrs, so sad.
Anybody who believes the govt is out to help anybody I've got some ocean side property for you to buy.
On the issue of GMO and Monsanto.
They have sued a farmer who purchased his seed from them, then kept back a certain amount to re-seed his fields with. We do that. It cuts down on the cost of production.
Here are some links.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/Monsanto/farmerssued.cfm
http://nelsonfarm.net/
I read recently a story in the Prairie Star about a farm family in the midwest that is waiting for Monsanto to come after them.
They live near a railroad track. They started noticing this yellow "weed" growing along the right of way and taking over the area.
They sprayed it with Roundup to kill it.
It didn't work.
They took it in and found out it was a Roundup Ready canonla.
Because this seed was blown off of the train and is now on their property Monsnato can claim theft of "their" product.
There is a war going on here that no one see's, but those of us in it.
It is to run those of us who are raising the food that feeds this nation off the land.
I've heard the claims that there are people who can do it better then us and cheaper.
Seriously doubt it.
On the issue of GMO and Monsanto.
They have sued a farmer who purchased his seed from them, then kept back a certain amount to re-seed his fields with. We do that. It cuts down on the cost of production.
Here are some links.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/Monsanto/farmerssued.cfm
http://nelsonfarm.net/
I read recently a story in the Prairie Star about a farm family in the midwest that is waiting for Monsanto to come after them.
They live near a railroad track. They started noticing this yellow "weed" growing along the right of way and taking over the area.
They sprayed it with Roundup to kill it.
It didn't work.
They took it in and found out it was a Roundup Ready canonla.
Because this seed was blown off of the train and is now on their property Monsnato can claim theft of "their" product.
There is a war going on here that no one see's, but those of us in it.
It is to run those of us who are raising the food that feeds this nation off the land.
I've heard the claims that there are people who can do it better then us and cheaper.
Seriously doubt it.
First I want to say thank you to booker81 for what he/she had to say. I never get teary eyed about anything written on this forum, but you did it to me this morning. Honestly, it gets rather old being portrayed as a villain by a certain group of people on here because of what we chose to grow on our farm. No one forces anyone to take a single spoonful of any crop or animal we grow here. As seedcorn said if it were not for the crops we are growing today, there would be many hungry and starving people....and not just in this country, but worldwide. If someone is in the position to grow all their own food I say more power to them.....but the truth is that not many people are and if the world depended of them as the only food source I hate to think of the numbers of starving people there would be.
mame1616: You would be hardpressed to find a farm today that only grows one crop. I don't know of a single farm that is not diversified and doesn't grow at the minimum 3 different ones. In our area we used to have many farms that only grew wheat. That changed tho when year after year it was costing more to produce it than we recieved in payment. At least when you grow differnet crops you have a better chance of coming out with a small profit on one of them.
I agree with seedcorn that some people have no idea what they are wishing for. I for one don't wish to go back to the days of no regulations. There is a reason there was a need for trying to regulate the safety of our food sources.....and this was way before the days of Monsanto or any other large company.
mame1616: You would be hardpressed to find a farm today that only grows one crop. I don't know of a single farm that is not diversified and doesn't grow at the minimum 3 different ones. In our area we used to have many farms that only grew wheat. That changed tho when year after year it was costing more to produce it than we recieved in payment. At least when you grow differnet crops you have a better chance of coming out with a small profit on one of them.
I agree with seedcorn that some people have no idea what they are wishing for. I for one don't wish to go back to the days of no regulations. There is a reason there was a need for trying to regulate the safety of our food sources.....and this was way before the days of Monsanto or any other large company.
Quote:
If you are buying seed you or your husband has signed an agreement not to hold back seed. We have a neighbor that did that......$50,000 dollar fine. I'd love to be able to do that and cut down on costs, but I don't have an extra $50,000 laying around to pay in fines.
If you are buying seed you or your husband has signed an agreement not to hold back seed. We have a neighbor that did that......$50,000 dollar fine. I'd love to be able to do that and cut down on costs, but I don't have an extra $50,000 laying around to pay in fines.
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