How to send your farmer to jail Update on Tester Amendment Post 239

[bakerjw]

But what do governments do with more power than they should have? Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, and a few others come to mind. Those may be extreme examples but as citizens we do have to watch how much power we allow our elected officials to wield. IMHO they have much more than the founding fathers intended.

I do agree though that government has a place. We do need to ensure that our workers have safe places to work. That kids aren't forced to work in sweat shops. That we force companies to environmentally conscious. That we have a legal system where everyone is on the same legal footing. etc... But at the same time we are approaching a nanny state where the Fed God thinks that they know what's best for us and are trying to protect us from ourselves.

 

[ivan3]

Q9 wrote:
Having read the actual text of the bill, I can safely say that - despite what Ivan3 may think about our government nobly following their own guidelines - we are screwed. They're not going to follow obscure 2002 regulations anymore than they'll follow prominent 1789 regulations. Since when does the United States government follow ANY laws? It just declares an emergency and BAM! Remember Lincoln and his 13,000+ political prisoners who were arrested with no trial or charges? Remember FDR and his unilateral imprisonment of thousands of Japanese Americans for no good reason?

I made no warranty, implied or expressed, as to the quality of any government agency's execution of those regs that the agency is legally required to discharge. Those regs are not `hidden' they appear for anyone to persuse without leaving the desk:

http://www.archives.gov/ (just type CFR into the search - Code Of Federal Regulations) then drill down (most recently changed regs are available through the beta e-reg).

The 2002 Food Safety and Bioterrorism Act didn't raise much of a stink (Yeah, but consider the tenor of the times) but now, nearly ten years after 9/11, everyone seems to forget what it was like (wahhabist widgets poisoning our milk! - Oh, My, SAVE US, UNCLE SAM!). So, our legislators acted and, the current bill S510 is nowhere near as onerous or `weasel' worded (the bill in question along with the changes, simply states that it conforms with the Food Drug and Cosmetics Act as amended by the 2002 bioterrorism Act).

Write your congressmen and tell them you want an area set aside for lobbyists. This area will have to have both audio and video recording devices. The only meetings that the member can have with lobbyists must occur in that area; all resulting recordings must be posted to youtube, etc. within 24hr. of the end of the mtg. Also, tell them you want a copy of every piece of legislation to appear with hyperlinks to all conforming/previous legislation and Help Files associated with the bill, etc. Hey, guys, it gets lonely out here.

Badly written law is sometimes a problem but it is the interpretation of the resulting reg and the direction/degree of action, by the agency charged with enforcement, and the subsequent decisions/law generated by judicial action when challenges are mounted that result in some pretty odd results.

When it comes to enforcement it is individual State Laws that are often more `tight' and those agents are always there the `first with the most' Fed enforcement is, more often than not, subject to the whims of the political party in power. I'd suggest anyone who's interested in reading up on the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act (only briefly enforced and both parties had their own reasons for letting it slide).

However, if it wasn't for the strength of the garden clubs/florists (lobby) in the 1940's, Opium Poppies would have been outlawed and, while driving through older, `genteel' neighborhoods of Columbia, Mo, in May, the profusion of flowers wouldn't make it look so much like Little Martha Stewart Afghanistan. Guess no one ever pays attention until they think their ox is going to be gored (or they want their ox to gore another's...).

Re: Lincoln. I'll ask you again: was the 3/5 compromise a government sop to a certain privileged class of businessmen? And, is the 13 Amendment legitimate? As to the 10th - good luck getting another amendment ratified to add the word "expressly" before the word `delegated'. Like some others, this is a lost cause. The `Japanese' internment? On the one hand, it was not so bright, on the other, it kept many of those folks from being killed by their neighbors.​

 

[Q9]

Quote:
I made no warranty, implied or expressed, as to the quality of any government agency's execution of those regs that the agency is legally required to discharge. Those regs are not `hidden' they appear for anyone to persuse without leaving the desk:

http://www.archives.gov/ (just type CFR into the search - Code Of Federal Regulations) then drill down (most recently changed regs are available through the beta e-reg).

The 2002 Food Safety and Bioterrorism Act didn't raise much of a stink (Yeah, but consider the tenor of the times) but now, 10yrs after 9/11 everyone seems to forget what it was like (wahhabist widgets poisoning our milk! - Oh, My, SAVE US, UNCLE SAM!). So, our legislators acted and, the current bill S510 is nowhere near as onerous or `weasel' worded (the bill in question along with the changes, simply states that it conforms with the Food Drug and Cosmetics Act as amended by the 2002 bioterrorism Act).

Write your congressmen and tell them you want an area set aside for lobbyists. This area will have to have both audio and video recording devices. The only meetings that the member can have with lobbyists must occur in that area; all resulting recordings must be posted to youtube, etc. within 24hr. of the end of the mtg. Also, tell them you want a copy of every piece of legislation to appear with hyperlinks to all conforming/previous legislation and Help Files associated with the bill, etc. Hey, guys, it gets lonely out here.
Badly written law is sometimes a problem but it is the interpretation of the resulting reg and the direction/degree of action, by the agency charged with enforcement, and the subsequent law arising out of judicial action when challenges are mounted that result in some pretty odd results.
When it comes to enforcement it is individual State Laws that are often more `tight' and those agents are always there the `first with the most' Fed enforcement is more often than not subject to the whims of the political party in power. I'd suggest anyone who's interested in reading up on the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act (only briefly enforced and both parties had their own reasons for letting it slide).
However, if it wasn't for the strength of the garden clubs/florists (lobby) in the 1940's, Opium Poppies would have been outlawed and, while driving through older, `genteel' neighborhoods of Columbia, Mo, in May, the profusion of flowers wouldn't make it look so much like Little Martha Stewart Afghanistan. Guess no one ever pays attention until they think their ox is going to be gored (or they want their ox to gore another's...).

Re: Lincoln. I'll ask you again: was the 3/5 compromise a government sop to a certain privileged class of businessmen? And, is the 13 Amendment legitimate? As to the 10th - good luck getting another amendment ratified to add the word "expressly" before the word `delegated'. Like some others, this is a lost cause. The Japanese internment? On the one hand, it was not so bright, on the other, it kept many of those folks from being killed by their neighbors.

Bolded: Not a bad idea. Heard about a Congressman - from Michigan, I believe - who posts his votes on Facebook and gives his reasons for voting that way.

The 13th is legit, the 14th is not.

As for the 3/5 clause, what in Heaven's name does that have to do with Lincoln's dictatorship? 10th Amendment? It says powers delegated, and that means DELEGATED, not "powers that by incredible leaps of mind-blowing semantic acrobatics can vaguely be construed to somehow magically belong to the government." It's not a lost cause. Even if it is, I won't give up the fight. It is the cornerstone of the Bill of Rights, and it must be respected!

Yes, dying in a government internment camp is much better than being murdered.

Also, last I checked, it wasn't typical for people to go around killing due to ethnicity in America. Did it happen occasionally? Yes, but not often. Prejudice would be an issue (remember Freedom Fries?), but murder? I don't think so. It's all hypothetical, though.

 

[seedcorn]

The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution was adopted on July 9, 1868 as one of the Reconstruction Amendments.

Its Citizenship Clause provides a broad definition of citizenship that overruled the decision in Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857), which held that blacks could not be citizens of the United States.

Its Due Process Clause prohibits state and local governments from depriving persons (individual and corporate) of life, liberty, or property without certain steps being taken. This clause has been used to make most of the Bill of Rights applicable to the states, as well as to recognize substantive rights and procedural rights.

Its Equal Protection Clause requires each state to provide equal protection under the law to all people within its jurisdiction

I hope thinking the 14 is bad is a failed form of humor...............

how much power we allow our elected officials to wield. IMHO they have much more than the founding fathers intended.

key phrase is high lighted. We will never agree on how much power they should have. Founding fathers never thought we'd need FBI, CIA, full time military, etc. We as a country continue to evolve & not always in the correct direction. To insure a safe, affordable food supply, we want the government involved. Without it, the very large would take over. Don't think for a minute that every person in AG is very sensitive to anti-trust laws, monopoly laws, etc. Without them, I'd hate to think where we'd be.​

 

[Q9]

Quote:
I hope thinking the 14 is bad is a failed form of humor...............

No problem with the redefinition of citizenship or equal protection, problem with the expansion of government power, BIG problem with the fact that it was not ratified correctly. If you look at the history, it is the most convoluted process I've ever seen. The Southern states voted not to ratify, and were then declared out of the Union by the people that forced them back in at gunpoint, and deprived of representation. To gain readmission, they needed to vote to ratify it. But a state cannot vote to ratify with no representation and being out of the Union. Well, in the end they ratified it while under military-controlled puppet governments and were readmitted to the Union that they were trying to leave in the first place. Follow me?

I THINK I got all of that in the right order.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
I hope thinking the 14 is bad is a failed form of humor...............

how much power we allow our elected officials to wield. IMHO they have much more than the founding fathers intended.

key phrase is high lighted. We will never agree on how much power they should have. Founding fathers never thought we'd need FBI, CIA, full time military, etc. We as a country continue to evolve & not always in the correct direction. To insure a safe, affordable food supply, we want the government involved. Without it, the very large would take over. Don't think for a minute that every person in AG is very sensitive to anti-trust laws, monopoly laws, etc. Without them, I'd hate to think where we'd be.​

Still haven't ever seen an example of a monopoly that wasn't state-supported. You know why? THEY CAN'T EXIST.

 

[knjinnm]

Quote:
Hah. Haven't you figured out that the FDA doesn't give a rat's hindquarters about you? They don't care about any of us. They're bad at their job, and I would rather trust a company's sense of self-preservation rather than a bureaucrat who couldn't care less about my health.

Tell me, who has done more damage since 1789? "Evil" companies, or our "good" government?

Aaaah ..."Evil" companies" .... I've got a shipment of Chinese toothpaste ... howmany pallets would you like?

Boycott wal-mart, buy "Made In The USA" support American jobs or surrender to the Chinese!

http://www.allamericanclothing.com/

 

[Q9]

Quote:
Hah. Haven't you figured out that the FDA doesn't give a rat's hindquarters about you? They don't care about any of us. They're bad at their job, and I would rather trust a company's sense of self-preservation rather than a bureaucrat who couldn't care less about my health.

Tell me, who has done more damage since 1789? "Evil" companies, or our "good" government?

Aaaah ..."Evil" companies" .... I've got a shipment of Chinese toothpaste ... howmany pallets would you like?

Boycott wal-mart, buy "Made In The USA" support American jobs or surrender to the Chinese!

http://www.allamericanclothing.com/

And the government has not played a major role at all, since it hasn't made our US companies unable to compete with China through over-regulation.

Now, care to tell me who has done more damage?

 

[seedcorn]

Still haven't ever seen an example of a monopoly that wasn't state-supported. You know why? THEY CAN'T EXIST

Because it's illegal that's why monopolies don't exist. Name a federal supported monopoly--federal reserve bank is the only one. In fertilizer business, it's getting close as 3 companies control the P & K of the world. Don't think the 3 owners don't talk. They play nicely because if 2 go out, federal government will step in.

And the government has not played a major role at all, since it hasn't made our US companies unable to compete with China through over-regulation.

Now, care to tell me who has done more damage?

We the consumers did it to ourselves as we bought the cheap, slave labor products instead of paying much higher for US produced. Not that hard to figure out.​

 

[mame1616]

When only four companies control over 80% of the beef production in this country, I consider that a monopoly. Similar numbers exist for pork and chicken. By literal definition, this situation is not a monopoly, but it sure feels like it in real life.