How to tell legitimate puppy ads from scammers and puppy mill ads.

[collie1470]

Then there are the "breeders" who straight up pose as rescues. Doing some research into a rescue prior to adopting will usually weed those out fairly quickly, though.

 

[HeritageGoose13]

Some legitimate rescues do "purchase" dogs. But that's usually only when getting breeding dogs from a puppy mill (who isn't breaking any laws). National Mill Dog Rescue commonly gets dogs who were being sold at auctions as breeders. Because currently they can't yet stop the mill, unless it is breaking one of the very lax laws.

If its not breaking any cruelty laws, how do we know it is a puppy mill? You say the laws are lax... how lax? How would you define a puppy mill?

Thanks for answering all my questions.

 

[collie1470]

The worst is the minimum requirements for shelter....I believe the cages have to be 6" longer, wider, and taller than the dog....but they can be in them constantly.

There have been puppy mills who have passed USDA inspection, despite having injured, sick, dying, and dead dogs/puppies, rotting or moldy food, frozen solid water, etc. The records of insoections on various puppy mills are available on the web. I could find them, but I feel like it may be a topic for another thread, since it's a bit off topic :/

To me, a puppy mill is a business operation that has more dogs than can be given individual attention. They are generally unsocialized, are not health tested prior to breeding, are usually bred every heat cycle until they are used up....to buy a pup, there is no requirement besides being able to pay. Many sell to brokers, who then sell the pups, because the "breeders" don't actually care who gets them. Vet care is often minimal, if available. They're the lowest of the low, when it comes to breeders. At least BYBs usually care for their dogs, even if the pups are just to make money.

 

[collie1470]

We raided one when I was back in NY. It was relatively small, but the dogs were all malnourished and dehydrated, most were terribly hand shy because there was no socializing, they were all filthy and had overgrown nails, many had injuries. The only reason we could do anything at the time was because the police were called about dead dogs on the property, and there was no food for the dogs on multiple visits. So there was a seizure (34 dogs, I think it was) and an investigation. But he was only charged with neglect.

 

[collie1470]

If you want to avoid them, watch out for any breeder or rescue who won't let you see their dogs and facilities. A rescue should at the very least have medical records for an animal (since they'll see a vet, unless it's a high kill shelter). A breeder should be highly knowledgeable in their chosen breed. They should be more than happy to answer any questions.

I'm a firm believer that if you get a bad feeling about a shelter or breeder, you should avoid them. Normally if someone seems shady, they are.

 

[Finnie]

Some legitimate rescues do "purchase" dogs. But that's usually only when getting breeding dogs from a puppy mill (who isn't breaking any laws). National Mill Dog Rescue commonly gets dogs who were being sold at auctions as breeders. Because currently they can't yet stop the mill, unless it is breaking one of the very lax laws.

Interesting. So it sounds like National Mill Dog Rescue is one of the puppy mills' biggest customers. I don't think it really matters if they are buying the puppy, or the used up parents that made the puppy. Buying from the mill keeps them in business, not stops them.

So it sounds like some rescues are being counterproductive.

 

[Finnie]

with the dogs, when word gets out that a rescue is planning to come to the auction (and rescues always seem to promote that they are going, when and where, to help drum up donations before the big day. So puppy millers and sellers call each other and plan to bring extra dogs or bring dogs when they might not have even planned to go to the auction. They then work together, bidding against the rescue (who are often outspoken and obvious) to drive up the prices.

Rescue groups ought to catch a clue.

This not only wastes their donation dollars available, but is profitable to the very people they want to shut down. They are working for the mills, not against them.

I agree with what other people have said about there being rescues, and there being rescues. Any scammer can call themselves a rescue, so it's just one more line to be on the lookout for.

And then some people are really just animal hoarders, but they make themselves feel better by convincing themselves they are a "rescue".

So it pays to vet your rescue organization just like you have to vet your breeder. Sigh. So on that note, I would say that this thread has not gone off topic at all. It's still the same question, how do you weed the good out from the bad.

 

[dekel18042]

Since "puppy mill" has no defined term and people often cannot agree on the exact definition, many prefer the term substandard breeder which is anyone not giving their animals what they need in terms of food, shelter, mental stimulation, to thrive. I've heard the joke many times, "the only ones not a mill are you and I, and I'm not so sure about you."

 

[Finnie]

 

[collie1470]

That is true. There are "red flags" for a bad breeder, but one of them doesn't mean they're a mill (some people say advertising pups for sale means you aren't a good breeder, but if nobody knows you have pups available, you're just going to raise them all yourself XD)