Quote:
Growing up I was taught the term hybrid is used for sterile animals and the term crossed is used for breedable animals. Yes you are correct they can be used for both, but if the industry used these terms the way me and many breeders that I know use the terms, it would be alot less confusing for beginners. Most people use the term "RED GOLDEN" pheasant but technically it's just GOLDEN pheasant. I am all for using RED in the name because then it is not confused with the other colors.
I didn't think any of the hybrids I posted photos of were wasting a breeding to preserve some endangered species. But then I didn't consider: common mutt Ringnecks, Silvers, Reeves, Goldens, Amherst; (all the ones in the photos) to be endangered. When backyard breeders are selling them for less than what it costs to actually raise them, they don't seem to endangered to me.
One thing to consider, when you do have an extra male pheasant that you do not have a hen for(so he was going to wasted for a breeding season anyway), by keeping a hen from another breed with him can keep that male from becoming overly aggressive when you do need him to breed with a hen of his own species. I have seen people keep spare males by themselves and when they try to mix them back with hens that male kills the hens. I also believe that by keeping him with a hen even of a different breed will keep him in better condition and breeding performance.
The problem with using "hybrid" and "cross" to delineate between "infertile" and "fertile" is that you don't know which term to use until the hybrids attempt to breed themselves. And what if one breeder says "the birds are sterile" and another says "no, I got mine to breed"? Do you change the term used? What about hybrids that follow Haldane's rule, where the female birds are sterile but the males have some fertility? What would you call them?
That's my point -- the terms you (and others) are using might seem useful for some cases, but there are too many exceptions to keep the usage of the terms from becoming clumsy.
In essence, "hybrid" refers to any time you bring parents together that differ at a specific level (other than gender, of course) and create offspring. When studying genetic traits, "hybrid" can refer to crossing a bird with one mutation with another that lacks it. It can also mean crossing different strains -- we have countless examples of hybrid seed offered that is certainly fertile, but comes from crossing two different inbred homozygous lines. At a taxonomic level, "hybrids" can be between different subspecies of the same species, or different species within the same genus, or different genera.
I'm not denying that you and others in your area are using the terms as you state, and if those are the terms that make communication easier for you and others, continue to use them -- if you are all consistently using terms incorrectly, at least you're being consistent. But when you communicate with people outside that community, you'll have to qualify that "this is what I mean when I say this" because many others don't follow your pattern of definition.
BTW, wouldn't it just be easier to insert the word "sterile" or "fertile" rather than come up with your own definitions of what the words mean? And what do you call the birds when you're the first one doing that particular hybridization, like with your vulturine guinea fowl hybrids? You won't know if you're "making crosses" or "making hybrids" until the offspring mature and attempt to breed. What do you call them until then? That's my point about your delineations being clumsy.
When I was talking about the only negative of making sterile hybrids being a "wasted breeding season" I wasn't speaking specifically about your birds, but the practice of making sterile hybrids in general. I didn't recognize any endangered species among the parents listed for your hybrids, but I'm not well-versed in the conservation status of all pheasants. I meant that, for example, if someone was selling a hyacinth/greenwing macaw hybrid, I'd say "wow, that hyacinth missed out on breeding with another of its species, and that species isn't doing so well in the wild...tsk-tsk-tsk."
In any case, the birds give you pleasure through your hobby, and I totally understand that and your desire to share pics here.
Growing up I was taught the term hybrid is used for sterile animals and the term crossed is used for breedable animals. Yes you are correct they can be used for both, but if the industry used these terms the way me and many breeders that I know use the terms, it would be alot less confusing for beginners. Most people use the term "RED GOLDEN" pheasant but technically it's just GOLDEN pheasant. I am all for using RED in the name because then it is not confused with the other colors.
I didn't think any of the hybrids I posted photos of were wasting a breeding to preserve some endangered species. But then I didn't consider: common mutt Ringnecks, Silvers, Reeves, Goldens, Amherst; (all the ones in the photos) to be endangered. When backyard breeders are selling them for less than what it costs to actually raise them, they don't seem to endangered to me.
One thing to consider, when you do have an extra male pheasant that you do not have a hen for(so he was going to wasted for a breeding season anyway), by keeping a hen from another breed with him can keep that male from becoming overly aggressive when you do need him to breed with a hen of his own species. I have seen people keep spare males by themselves and when they try to mix them back with hens that male kills the hens. I also believe that by keeping him with a hen even of a different breed will keep him in better condition and breeding performance.
The problem with using "hybrid" and "cross" to delineate between "infertile" and "fertile" is that you don't know which term to use until the hybrids attempt to breed themselves. And what if one breeder says "the birds are sterile" and another says "no, I got mine to breed"? Do you change the term used? What about hybrids that follow Haldane's rule, where the female birds are sterile but the males have some fertility? What would you call them?
That's my point -- the terms you (and others) are using might seem useful for some cases, but there are too many exceptions to keep the usage of the terms from becoming clumsy.
In essence, "hybrid" refers to any time you bring parents together that differ at a specific level (other than gender, of course) and create offspring. When studying genetic traits, "hybrid" can refer to crossing a bird with one mutation with another that lacks it. It can also mean crossing different strains -- we have countless examples of hybrid seed offered that is certainly fertile, but comes from crossing two different inbred homozygous lines. At a taxonomic level, "hybrids" can be between different subspecies of the same species, or different species within the same genus, or different genera.
I'm not denying that you and others in your area are using the terms as you state, and if those are the terms that make communication easier for you and others, continue to use them -- if you are all consistently using terms incorrectly, at least you're being consistent. But when you communicate with people outside that community, you'll have to qualify that "this is what I mean when I say this" because many others don't follow your pattern of definition.
BTW, wouldn't it just be easier to insert the word "sterile" or "fertile" rather than come up with your own definitions of what the words mean? And what do you call the birds when you're the first one doing that particular hybridization, like with your vulturine guinea fowl hybrids? You won't know if you're "making crosses" or "making hybrids" until the offspring mature and attempt to breed. What do you call them until then? That's my point about your delineations being clumsy.
When I was talking about the only negative of making sterile hybrids being a "wasted breeding season" I wasn't speaking specifically about your birds, but the practice of making sterile hybrids in general. I didn't recognize any endangered species among the parents listed for your hybrids, but I'm not well-versed in the conservation status of all pheasants. I meant that, for example, if someone was selling a hyacinth/greenwing macaw hybrid, I'd say "wow, that hyacinth missed out on breeding with another of its species, and that species isn't doing so well in the wild...tsk-tsk-tsk."
In any case, the birds give you pleasure through your hobby, and I totally understand that and your desire to share pics here.
Last edited:
