I am planning to do something controversial, eating eggs immediately after worming with Ivermectin.

[addctd2plnts]

What type of human doctor are you?

I'm a foot & Ankle Surgeon, but I read as many veterinary articles daily as I do human medical articles, and that's a LOT because I don't watch TV. Hubby is also a doctor, Radiologist. We've both done a significant amount of research on Ivermectin, from even before when it was suggested for Covid because we knew doctors had used it to treat SARS and MERS, and it was likely to be effective on related viruses.

I worked for vets for 8 years before medical school, and was already reading veterinary journals daily in high school LOL My research on Ivermectin was expanded in animals because of my 22 years of work in dog rescue, and researching alternative ways to treat, not just prevent, HW infections. I have fostered several dogs that were much too sick to have the traditional adulticidal HW treatment. All did very well on WEEKLY doses of Ivermectin, with a pulse therapy of Doxycycline. This was a treatment I combined, with the consult of the vet, from two separate articles in veterinary medicine. It takes a lot to impress doctors when it comes to medications. Many medications never come close to the hype they are presented with. However, Ivermectin truly impresses every doctor I know that has studied it.

Just had a conversation with a new vet a few weeks ago and he was laughing about how the farmers use it and how lucky they are that it is so safe. He also mentioned a study I had read where they gave Beagles EIGHT TIMES the daily dose for 8 weeks straight and they only side effects they had were decreased food intake and stomach related. They have even tested it in pregnant dogs with daily administration and the puppies were still born totally healthy!
I laughed because I use it on my ducks and horses and I'm sure many people are not very good at eyeballing the weights of their horses. Animals would be dropping like flies if it wasn't as safe as it is LMBO

 

[kerbotx]

As previously mentioned, I've always thought it boiled down to increased resistance, if you ever had to take that same drug yourself, and allergic reaction, which you might know about yourself/your family, but wouldn't about others you might share eggs with. But then I also wonder - so there's residual amount in the fresh egg itself, but then you cook it, and then you digest it - how does all that change things?? Experiments are fun

 

[Jelibaen]

I work full time as a vet tech in Canada, and my main concerns would be:

1. Parasitic resistance, which is something that we should all be concerned about whether you plan to use it again or not. If you're consuming a product that isn't strong enough to kill any parasites you have, you offer the chance for them to become resistant to it. And unfortunately parasites are spread in many different ways. So while YOU may not be concerned about it, you may end up spreading a drug-resistant parasite to someone else. This is how we have resistances in mites, lice, and some worms.

2. Allergies. You may not know if you are allergic to it or not. Your clients may not know if they are allergic to it or not. Usually with allergies you can be exposed to it once and have very minor signs, but the second go round ends up with a severe reaction. This is because your body decides the first time that its a threat - the second time it knows what it needs to do to handle it.

3. MDR1 - the gene that makes Ivermectin and related products extremely dangerous in some breeds of dogs, as noted above. Purebred dogs arent the only ones that can carry this, and not everyone knows what their dog's genetic make up is. So they may have a lab mix but if they carry the gene, they can end up with a severe reaction.

Human ivermectin and veterinary ivermectin are created differently, have different concentrations and each species requires a different dose. There may be additives to the medication, and it may be altered by the body before it gets into the egg which can make it unsafe for consumption.

While I cant stop you from eating your own eggs, in regards to my professional experience, I highly recommend that you do not sell these eggs until after the appropriate withdrawal period. Your clients are likely to not understand what you mean by 'theres a bit of Ivermectin in it' - okay the drug is there, but they dont know what its for, how much or what their risks are. As the producer, you do, and it is your responsibility to deal with that appropriately.

I know that wasting eggs sucks, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

 

[jonalisa]

It is now 10:13 am, and I've finished eating the eggs. They tasted fresh and wonderful, as usual. I'm still breathing and my heart rate is normal, and I'm still conscious. And I haven't thrown up yet.

Lady, you are my kind of pioneer...

 

[azygous]

If you have worms or external parasites, perhaps this will help.

What I was thinking. I treated my chickens for feather mites, but I figure they also got wormed as a bonus. That could go for me as well.

 

[addctd2plnts]

Maybe you can tell us the difference between formulations for humans and pets/livestock?


Curious about that too.

Absolutely no difference in the injectible, which is what would be used orally, despite what the press would infer. It's made to the same regulations because all injectible medications are made to extremely tight specifications. They cannot have contaminants. They must have the strength on the bottle and be consistent. The only thing you have to be careful about is that some formulations for deworming also contain other medications to cover more parasites. I personally would have no problem taking any injectible Ivermectin orally, as long as it's not made in China or Russia.

I wouldn't use the drench formulations on humans, because the injectible is much more reliable and there's no resson to use them, but have used them on my ducks with no problems.

 

[addctd2plnts]

I work full time as a vet tech in Canada, and my main concerns would be:

1. Parasitic resistance, which is something that we should all be concerned about whether you plan to use it again or not. If you're consuming a product that isn't strong enough to kill any parasites you have, you offer the chance for them to become resistant to it. And unfortunately parasites are spread in many different ways. So while YOU may not be concerned about it, you may end up spreading a drug-resistant parasite to someone else. This is how we have resistances in mites, lice, and some worms.

2. Allergies. You may not know if you are allergic to it or not. Your clients may not know if they are allergic to it or not. Usually with allergies you can be exposed to it once and have very minor signs, but the second go round ends up with a severe reaction. This is because your body decides the first time that its a threat - the second time it knows what it needs to do to handle it.

3. MDR1 - the gene that makes Ivermectin and related products extremely dangerous in some breeds of dogs, as noted above. Purebred dogs arent the only ones that can carry this, and not everyone knows what their dog's genetic make up is. So they may have a lab mix but if they carry the gene, they can end up with a severe reaction.

Human ivermectin and veterinary ivermectin are created differently, have different concentrations and each species requires a different dose. There may be additives to the medication, and it may be altered by the body before it gets into the egg which can make it unsafe for consumption.

While I cant stop you from eating your own eggs, in regards to my professional experience, I highly recommend that you do not sell these eggs until after the appropriate withdrawal period. Your clients are likely to not understand what you mean by 'theres a bit of Ivermectin in it' - okay the drug is there, but they dont know what its for, how much or what their risks are. As the producer, you do, and it is your responsibility to deal with that appropriately.

I know that wasting eggs sucks, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

You don't understand parasite resistance. It doesn't come about from a single time of using a medication. It becomes an issue when commercial farms routinely use dewoming meds in small but frequent amounts. It doesn't become an issue because a backyard farmer deworms his chickens twice a year. The parasites need to be exposed on a much more frequent basis to become resistant.

Ivermectin made for human is biologically IDENTICAL to Ivermectin made for animals. LOL I understand the media said otherwise, but they lied. It's like saying that salt for horses, is different than salt for humans. Both are are the chemical formula: NaCl. Ivermectin has a chemical formula and it's the same for human and animal meds. Furthermore, medications made for animals are made to the same rigid specifications as human medications. They need the medications to be just as pure because that livestock FEEDS PEOPLE! Different strengths are not an issue at all. It's basic math to convert a strength of medication for horses, to dogs or cattle to people. As long as you know the strength of the medication (mg/ml) and the dose approved for the condition you need it for in humans, and the weight of the human, you can ALWAYS get an accurate conversion. I convert doses the same way for pediatric patients. It's no different to convert between species, as long as you have a known dosage that is approved for the use you need it for. I do it all the time in reverse too, for medications I have that are human meds, but I need to use them in dogs. Just did it last night to use human Benedryl in a dog. LOL

If you can find a Journal article in human medicine or veterinary on an allergic reaction to Ivermectin, I'd like to see it. I mean this in the interest of learning. Ivermectin has anti inflammatory effects. Sometimes in massive die off of parasites, you see an allergic type response, but it's NOT an allergy to the medicine, its an allergy to the large numbers of foreign parasites dying in the host.

You are correct that Collies and Collie mixes should not have Ivermectin, due to the MDR1, but that is not the fault of Ivermectin. It is a genetic difference in them and it also means they are much more susceptible to a good number of known medications. The issue is that their mutation changes their blood-brain barrier and allows drugs that normally don't cross the barrier, to cross and effect the brain.

Ivermectin is still one of the miracle medications that truly deserved a Nobel Prize. I'm sure it has many applications outside those currently known.

 

[azygous]

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!!! You've helped make this thread much more than I could have hoped for! I know I'm not alone in learning much, much more than I knew before.

 

[azygous]

Well, I've experience no side effects from eating Ivermectin eggs. Thanks to everyone who participated on the thread, especially those who supplied links to studies and professional inside information. I feel much more comfortable about eating the eggs now.

In the future, I will treat in fall after most of my hens have ceased to lay, so the eggs won't be the issue it is now. These feather mites simply couldn't wait until fall.

 

[Jelibaen]

You don't understand parasite resistance. It doesn't come about from a single time of using a medication. It becomes an issue when commercial farms routinely use dewoming meds in small but frequent amounts. It doesn't become an issue because a backyard farmer deworms his chickens twice a year. The parasites need to be exposed on a much more frequent basis to become resistant.

Ivermectin made for human is biologically IDENTICAL to Ivermectin made for animals. LOL I understand the media said otherwise, but they lied. It's like saying that salt for horses, is different than salt for humans. Both are are the chemical formula: NaCl. Ivermectin has a chemical formula and it's the same for human and animal meds. Furthermore, medications made for animals are made to the same rigid specifications as human medications. They need the medications to be just as pure because that livestock FEEDS PEOPLE! Different strengths are not an issue at all. It's basic math to convert a strength of medication for horses, to dogs or cattle to people. As long as you know the strength of the medication (mg/ml) and the dose approved for the condition you need it for in humans, and the weight of the human, you can ALWAYS get an accurate conversion. I convert doses the same way for pediatric patients. It's no different to convert between species, as long as you have a known dosage that is approved for the use you need it for. I do it all the time in reverse too, for medications I have that are human meds, but I need to use them in dogs. Just did it last night to use human Benedryl in a dog. LOL

If you can find a Journal article in human medicine or veterinary on an allergic reaction to Ivermectin, I'd like to see it. I mean this in the interest of learning. Ivermectin has anti inflammatory effects. Sometimes in massive die off of parasites, you see an allergic type response, but it's NOT an allergy to the medicine, its an allergy to the large numbers of foreign parasites dying in the host.

You are correct that Collies and Collie mixes should not have Ivermectin, due to the MDR1, but that is not the fault of Ivermectin. It is a genetic difference in them and it also means they are much more susceptible to a good number of known medications. The issue is that their mutation changes their blood-brain barrier and allows drugs that normally don't cross the barrier, to cross and effect the brain.

Ivermectin is still one of the miracle medications that truly deserved a Nobel Prize. I'm sure it has many applications outside those currently known.

I apologize if I wasn't clear enough in the first sentence of my post that I work as a veterinary technician and in turn I do understand how medications, dosages, and parasitic resistance works. Considering I deal with all three on a daily basis.

You seem to have come to the conclusion that I hate Ivermectin. I dont. Its a great drug. But my POINT was that it can still have side effects and risks if the eggs are consumed or distributed without proper withdrawal periods. There are ALWAYS going to be risks.

Medications for both animals and people can have things added to it - taste is a huge one. Human medications, for example Benadryl or Gabapentin, are being made with sweeteners that are toxic to animals, such as xylitol. Injectable medications, not so much, but as you said - these animals FEED PEOPLE - and the withdrawal times are there for a reason. You should not be using any kind of human medication in animals without speaking to a veterinarian first.

As well, ANY medication can cause an allergic reaction, regardless of the safety margin or dosing. Any THING can cause an allergic reaction. Some people have physiological reactions to water (aquagenic urticaria) from just touching it and burst into hives. Pretending that Ivermectin allergies are impossible is a dangerous way of thinking.

MRD1 is not the fault of Ivermectin and I never said it was, but it IS still a concern and still should be on the list.

I dont appreciate the assumption that my information comes from the media or being talked down to like I don't understand how any of this works. I listed my concerns with the issue, and I would appreciate if judgements on my competence werent made because you disagree with my points.
Thank you for your time.