I An Idea For All of You, do you agree (concerns My Genetics Opinion)

[sourland]

I'm in absolute agrement on not "helping" chicks hatch. In any breeding program of any animal the more you "tolerate", the more you will have to "tolerate" in succeeding generations. As far as projects and "experts." Ex means past tense, and a spurt is a little drip under pressure. Take advice from the experts, but engage in whatever projects trip your trigger. You may just happen to be the person who makes the break through. JMO.

 

[usschicago1]

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I like it.

 

[TK Poultry]

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Hey There
Me and you are in the same bout (sp?) i have a sussex Project that i am wanting to start, i have a pen of both breeds (pure bred's) at the moment i am trying to make a purposed standered for the project i will be 15 before winter is over. I am not a genetic "guru" but that being said a lot of breeders that know me are shocked when they talk to me, about how much i know about genetics already at my age. It seems there are a lot of "projects" going on right know. I am thinking all but a few "projects" will probably die out after a while when some thing "new" comes along (Ie. Coronation sussex, other imports etc.)

I'm right there. I have to be up on my stuff to be able to sell my stuff. It's really competive in my area. We have alot of good birds and I need to know what I'm doing in order to go anywhere. I'm the only "breeder" that didn't inherit this from a parent. My mom's family shows cattle and my fathers family lives in the city. My backround is in cattle, horses, and goats. NO ONE ever takes me seriously! And I hate that!

 

[TK Poultry]

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I brought up the issue of age because if the only responsible breeders were professionals then when are you considered a professional. I just thought the whole OP was just kind of immature. Why would one care what another does with his or hers birds? Its all a game of decisions you have to make them yourself! i just wanted the OPer to answer these for me

Hey Lisa, We Don't Have to Agree, and I Do Appreciate Your Posts

Greencastle, First of All I Dont Appreciate Being Called Immature. You calling Chicken Keeping A Game is Actually Immature. I Really Don't Care what you do with your birds, if you want to paint there nails and Play Dress up with them go ahead. BUT, If you look throughout history, people always had chickens, and they learned from there parents who learned from there parents. Now, there is a generation gap, and like alot of people in this site, they just keep them for backyard birds and cross them. And Your not HELPING any breeds. I would ask have you ever been to a show, but your profile picture tells me you have. If you ever get to go to a big show, youll see so many breeds and a lot of them are not being worked with which is harmful to the variety's and breeds. I Want them to be here for my great great grandchildren to enjoy, and preserve the genetics. Responsible is not crossing Everything with everything and a professional is someone who knows what there doing in the chicken world.

I didn't mean to come across hateful or anything. I just don't understand where all of these questions came from. And with these questions come a whole lot of other questions and most of them are a matter of opinion and ethics. Which IMHO shouldn't really be discussed on an open forum because of how charged it could get. That was all I was trying to bring up, is the whole host of other questions upon other questions something of this nature could bring up. The whole professional thing, is there such thing as a "professional" poultry breeder? You really can't earn a living unless your running a hatchery, and are you practicing responsible breeding running a hatchery? I think a better word would have been experienced. And the hatch thing is a matter of ethics and opinion. Sometimes its human error and there is nothing wrong with duckling/gosling/chick/or other thing that may hatch out of an egg, and sometimes it is an unviable specimen and it will die either way. Either you help it and it dies a few days or weeks later or it dies in the shell either way you really most likely will never have to introduce that particular animal to a breeding situation.

Sorry if I upset anyone. Its just I think with these kinds of questions you really only get opinions (which you asked for) and more questions, but with opinions things may come off a bit skewed. Like I said I'm highly apologetic if I insulted you that was not how I intended my post to come across.

 

[usschicago1]

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Hey Lisa, We Don't Have to Agree, and I Do Appreciate Your Posts

Greencastle, First of All I Dont Appreciate Being Called Immature. You calling Chicken Keeping A Game is Actually Immature. I Really Don't Care what you do with your birds, if you want to paint there nails and Play Dress up with them go ahead. BUT, If you look throughout history, people always had chickens, and they learned from there parents who learned from there parents. Now, there is a generation gap, and like alot of people in this site, they just keep them for backyard birds and cross them. And Your not HELPING any breeds. I would ask have you ever been to a show, but your profile picture tells me you have. If you ever get to go to a big show, youll see so many breeds and a lot of them are not being worked with which is harmful to the variety's and breeds. I Want them to be here for my great great grandchildren to enjoy, and preserve the genetics. Responsible is not crossing Everything with everything and a professional is someone who knows what there doing in the chicken world.

I didn't mean to come across hateful or anything. I just don't understand where all of these questions came from. And with these questions come a whole lot of other questions and most of them are a matter of opinion and ethics. Which IMHO shouldn't really be discussed on an open forum because of how charged it could get. That was all I was trying to bring up, is the whole host of other questions upon other questions something of this nature could bring up. The whole professional thing, is there such thing as a "professional" poultry breeder? You really can't earn a living unless your running a hatchery, and are you practicing responsible breeding running a hatchery? I think a better word would have been experienced. And the hatch thing is a matter of ethics and opinion. Sometimes its human error and there is nothing wrong with duckling/gosling/chick/or other thing that may hatch out of an egg, and sometimes it is an unviable specimen and it will die either way. Either you help it and it dies a few days or weeks later or it dies in the shell either way you really most likely will never have to introduce that particular animal to a breeding situation.

Sorry if I upset anyone. Its just I think with these kinds of questions you really only get opinions (which you asked for) and more questions, but with opinions things may come off a bit skewed. Like I said I'm highly apologetic if I insulted you that was not how I intended my post to come across.

Haha You Don't Have to Apologize, I wanted peoples opinions Its the people that asked a million questions and was rude that i didnt ask for. I Love Other peoples opinions and i learned alot from them. As far as the professional thing, i took that back towards the middle of that thread, i replaced it with EXPERIENCED I should edit the first post but i like to see who read the whole thread and who didnt. But I learned not to apologize when you disagree greencastle, because a lot of people on this forum could argue with a wall, and alot of people on this thread have never shown a bird or opened the standerd of perfection! People will always disagree no matter what you say, which is fine i love all your opinions

 

[TK Poultry]

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I didn't mean to come across hateful or anything. I just don't understand where all of these questions came from. And with these questions come a whole lot of other questions and most of them are a matter of opinion and ethics. Which IMHO shouldn't really be discussed on an open forum because of how charged it could get. That was all I was trying to bring up, is the whole host of other questions upon other questions something of this nature could bring up. The whole professional thing, is there such thing as a "professional" poultry breeder? You really can't earn a living unless your running a hatchery, and are you practicing responsible breeding running a hatchery? I think a better word would have been experienced. And the hatch thing is a matter of ethics and opinion. Sometimes its human error and there is nothing wrong with duckling/gosling/chick/or other thing that may hatch out of an egg, and sometimes it is an unviable specimen and it will die either way. Either you help it and it dies a few days or weeks later or it dies in the shell either way you really most likely will never have to introduce that particular animal to a breeding situation.

Sorry if I upset anyone. Its just I think with these kinds of questions you really only get opinions (which you asked for) and more questions, but with opinions things may come off a bit skewed. Like I said I'm highly apologetic if I insulted you that was not how I intended my post to come across.

Haha You Don't Have to Apologize, I wanted peoples opinions Its the people that asked a million questions and was rude that i didnt ask for. I Love Other peoples opinions and i learned alot from them. As far as the professional thing, i took that back towards the middle of that thread, i replaced it with EXPERIENCED I should edit the first post but i like to see who read the whole thread and who didnt. But I learned not to apologize when you disagree greencastle, because a lot of people on this forum could argue with a wall, and alot of people on this thread have never shown a bird or opened the standerd of perfection! People will always disagree no matter what you say, which is fine i love all your opinions

Well I'm glad your not upset the point I was trying to get across was that things such as these bring up more questions and are really complicated and are different everywhere you go. I am lucky that I am able to show and things almost all year long. I go alot of places, meet great people, and buy/show/raise wonderful birds, but I am no experienced breeder, but hopefully one day I will be one of those people who everyone seeks out because of there amazing stock! that is a goal. If everyone read this thread they would get a quick 411 on ethics and other questions that come from these kinds of things.

 

[joe17]

I completely understand what the OP said and I am still on the fence. I know what you mean when you say that heritage breeds should be preserved and somebody shouldn't just randomly cross it not knowing anything. The heritage breed wont benefit from anything if it is just crossed. On the other hand, if the person is crossing the heritage breed on purpose to make another breed, then they should do it. If the person is just crossing to have fun and learn, then they should do it. They are the one paying the bills and caring for their chickens so they should do what they want. I know a lot of people cross and breed just to have fun and enjoy their flock. Thats fine too. They are not our chickens so they should do as THEY please. Either way, I dont really mind. I appreciate all the breeders trying to bring back heritage breeds but I also appreciate all the inexperienced (or experienced) breeders crossing just to have fun. A win-win situation for me

But this is just my opinion. I hope no one gets upset or offended by this.

I do think it is funny when people call every cross a project. I guess it really depends on what you consider a "project". There "project" may only have to be one cross. It just all depends.

About the helping chicks hatch, I dont really mind helping or not helping. If you are hatching like 7 dozen eggs, its not like you can help all of them. I hatch 2 or 3 dozen at a time and when I see an egg that is zipped and dried out, I help them out. If they are deformed in any way I try to help them. Most of the time they die off on their own if you help or not. Just depends on your experiences with helping out. I just constantly think "what if" I did help. Would that have been a show winning bird? Who knows!

I raise silkies and I have the standard of perfection. SIlkie standards are left to so much interpretation its not funny. I try the best I can. I just have chicks right now but I got them from awesome breeders! I cant wait to start breeding and hatching soon. Since I am interested in showing, I am not going to cross with anything just for "fun". When I get old (or tired or breeding towards the standards) I will probably just keep the breeds I like and enjoy whatever happens with them and their offspring.

 

[Sonoran Silkies]

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I agree with almost all of your post.

Probably the only thing I disagree with is that a slightly older breed that few are interested in should be preserved. I certainly do not object to it, but I see no imperative. If that breed had a single unique feature not found elsewhere in chickendom, I would likely find that breed, or more specifically that feature worth jumping through hoops to preserve.

Some projects start as a planned experience: acquire X & Y and maybe even Z and ABC. Then ... Others have a less obvious start. Backyard birds breed and maybe do so for several generations. THen one day you see one that looks really striking. How can I perpetuate this? Whenever a goal is defined, then it becomes a project. How long does it remain a project? Until either interest and effort are lost, or the goal is obtained. Probably most projects end up abandoned. But chances are the breeder learned a lot, and had fun. And the birds? They had just as good a life as they would have had they been bred to an existing standard.

 

[Black Cochin Bantams]

I wonder how anyone becomes an expert without doing some "projects"(experimental breeding) . I think anyone can learn from breeding whether the results are a success or failure.

My real problem with most "projects" is that there is no defined goal. How do you know if you are making progress towards your goal if there is no definition of desired results. Without standards and documentation it will be hard for changes to be recognized by your peers and governing bodies. Results will eventually fade away. Breeding crossbreds without goals will only make mutts. Breeding mutts is not a "project". But breeding crossbreds can be fun, so enjoy it for what it is if that's what you want to do.

 

[usschicago1]

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Honestly Thats Quite Easy. Breeding Out Faults in birds and Breeding to improve types are an easy way to learn about genetics and breeding without needless crosses. theres a lady here with cochins that she heavily culled (she got them from hatchery stock) and turned them into SQ Cochins! Heavy Culling and many generations of genetic learning i bet she knows more about genetics than most backyard mixes