I have a problem do I need dispatch

[Chicona]

I got my flock outside and I’ve been raising chicks inside and sending them out
So I have main flock
And my indoor flock

Indoor at week 10 we kept them in as it’s below freezing atm barred rock x2 and a leg bar

At birth the barred x1 had twisted foot and we fixed it in a cup and sling
She has always been not keen to jump but she is fine

Other bared hurt her legs on nothing other day but got better in a day of rest but then

Yesterday I noticed the legbar was wobbly and the other barred who has always been a baby lol

Today I found them falling over not pulling wings in and laying on their sides looks identicle to mareks

So I have separated them atm
I believe I need to cull the 2 with mareks

But my consern is do I dispatch the 1 of the Trio not effected as she will carry it
Or do I wait and see

I don’t want to inject my main flock outside and that’s where she will live grown up



As you can see standing up is my old hip problemed non jumper

Laying down wings open is my suspected mareks
There not stressed they will eat n drink if given otherwise there floppy laying down no strength in legs or wings

Is the other ones non jumping and hip problems a sign she is a carrier ? Who got better ? She’s normal just won’t jump at all

The 2 wobble but won’t even stand if I shake the box or come near like chickens do just lay there

 

[nuthatched]

They are suffering from severe nutritional and vitamin deficiency, not mareks.
If you want to make your own feed, this is a great place to research recipes, but what you're feeding now isn't Healthy especially for growing birds.
To continue to feed them this diet will end in stunted growth and death.
A good homemade feed will not be cheaper, and or any better nutritionally speaking, than store feed. On average, a properly balanced homemade feed will cost $3 to $8 a pound, double that for your stipulations of non gmo etc.
If someone says their recipe is cheaper and better than store feed, you can be sure that their recipe isn't a recipe you want.
Poultry feed is one one the most heavily researched agricultural areas on the planet, what you buy at the feed store is formulated to provide all the necessary nutrition, most effectively, price for pound.
A homemade feed can meet nutritional needs but it'll will be quite expensive and not easy to make.
You're going to need swine blood meal/fish meal/byproduct product meal and vitamin mix added to any whole grain mixes.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Why do they not have a commercial feed?

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I'm not going to tell you whether that's Marek's or not. What I don't know about poultry illness and injury would fill books - and does. I'd like to see more of that feed calculator - it maybe does things mine doesn't , and perhaps doesn't do things mine does.

What I can tell you is that the recipe above most definitely is NOT J Rhodes' recipe. J Rhodes' recipe relies on 10% fish meal. Take the fish meal out, and the recipe goes to [explicative]. Rhodes recipe, not accounting for water weight, and using a theoretical "average" fish meal (Fertrell's product is a little lower) outputs (roughly) 20% protein, 4% fiber, 3.7% fat, Met 0.4, Lys 1.15, Thre 0.7, Tryp 0.2 with an MJ/Kg at almost 14.

Remove the fish meal and replace it with nothing, as someone seems to have done for inexplicable reason? 14% protein, 4.6% fiber, 2.9% fat, Met .2, Lys .65, Thre 0.5, Tryp .14. I did say it went to [explicative] above. I meant it. MJ/kg mKE about 13.7

/edit Old targets, btw, for adult layers are [minimum] 16% protein, 3.5% fat +/-, 3.5% fiber +/-, Met 0.3*, Lys 0.6, Thre 0.5, Tryp 0.2 And any feed between 12 and 14 MJ/kg is typical range - above or below that is special purpose only /edit

Salatin pushes not a feed, but a system. You can't use his feed without using the whole system, or it too falls apart - and it is heavily dependent upon his quality pastures.

Based on published sources, the above feed is deficient across a host of measures. Fix that first. There's no way to know what's in your herbal mix, and I'd have to be concerned about the salt content of your fish aminos, as well. FInally, I am NOT seeing a source on non-phytate Phosphorus, meaning your birds CA : P ratio is likely a wreck as well.

I use Feedipedia.org for average nutritional values of various ingredients. Please, check my work.

* until roughly the 80s, Met couldn't be directly measured easily , you will instead see SAAs - Sulphur containing Amino Acids and a target around 0.6. Depending on the protien source, Met tends to be between 45% and 60% of the total SAA %.

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

You have been given a lot of sound advice with a lot of experience behind it. My suggestion would be to buy a bag of organic feed and switch them right away. If they finish the bag and show no signs of improvement maybe it's not your food but the best way to know that is to send a dead bird to your state lab for necropsy. I understand you want to keep their feed and your own food organic and chemical free but the reality is that the world is made of chemicals. Avoiding the harmful ones isnt always easy but they make quality organic feed-some even soy free if thats what you're into-and it beats a flock of dead chickens to something preventable.

 

[SmiYa0126]

Could it be a b vitamin definitely? What are you feeding them?

 

[SmiYa0126]

Do you have access to chick starter? I don't know the nutrition profile of the ingredients, but if the chicks can pick out what they like they're not getting the proper nutrition. I'm not sure what an egg bomb is, but you'd need b complex, selenium, and vitamin e to get them back to normal. I don't know the dose for little chicks like this though.

 

[BelovedBirds]

Been watching this thread, I dont know a lot about this topic but I am going to throw my two cents in after hearing everyones thoughts-
I would, personally, treat them as though this is a nutritional deficiency. If there's no improvement after switching feed/supplementing, then I guess that could indicate its mareks.
But I would try to save them and treat for other things before culling and starting over.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I know they need protein that’s why we give them meat n cheese etc they defiantly get that they also get scraps from hunting so meat is over covered I’d say
Phosphorus my oats have a warning on them saying high phos make sure calcium is added to horses who eat oats due to phosprus levels
Plus they get all greens like the j Rhodes green grass bar they get outside
Constantly have fresh greens
There inside atm due to weather it’s too cold to go out for them atm
Free form grit and kelp means they have it there to pick at
I don’t use salt and my fish amino is home made recipie washed fish salmon and haddock in lab fermented and stabilised

Meat side they get to pick at carcasses too all types of extras to fill their meat side of stuff, just had a goose at Xmas .
the fish was added as it gives a boost of protine aminos which require no energy to be absorbed as there digested already , so it’s an immediate form or building blocks aminos.
I don’t add fish powders at 10% or anything as been told about uric acid posioning and metals they can contain so where I can I make myself catch it or leftovers they get meat all the time


Main reason we did this diet was to get off soy beans as we didn’t want them on soy whatsoever
And the recipie said that by 8 weeks they should move on this from the chick crumb they was fed before which was NOT corn based as before 6 weeks they can’t process it


My peas are micronised peas and there is study’s showing peas to be one of the best nutritions full of aminos for chickens more weight etc also gained how is that bad ?
And the oats why remove them ? There far and phosphorus Beta glucan and amino too ?
The cp is why they get cheese n meat n stuff too


This is what they was on till 2 week ago when we swapped as instructed
And again with added scraps of meat n stuff too we always give em food to scratch at greens egg herbs meat cheese etc to boost be protein

Organic Baby Chick Starter Feed Recipe (No Fish Meal)​

5 cups organic hull-less oats
5 cups organic wheat
5 cups organic split green peas or organic field peas
2 cups organic (shelled) sunflower seeds
1 cup organic flax meal or organic sesame seeds
2 Tbs blackstrap molasses
1/4 cup organic kelp
2 Tbs brewer’s yeast

And this link is on videos and websites allover
https://www.theprairiehomestead.com/2016/06/homemade-chicken-feed-recipe.html

We add the meat as said

I've offered my understanding of the science. With links. You've offered opinion and series of recipes you aren't actually following. They are your birds, do as you will.

 

[NatJ]

Pretty sure birds aren't supposed to be eating dairy

That depends on who you ask.

A century ago, dairy was highly recommended in the poultry books of the time.
For example:
Robinson Poultry craft, published in 1904
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/69879#page/7/mode/1up
Page 99 has several paragraphs discussing milk and other dairy products as ingredients in chicken feed. Many other pages specifically recommend milk as an ingredient in foods for chickens of various ages (including young chicks.)

I know from personal experience that chickens can eat small amounts of cheese and other dairy products with no obvious ill effects. I have never been in a position to give them large amounts regularly, so I don't have any personal experience with that.