I have to talk POLISH!

[Illia]

Just my opinion, we've got enough of that fad color going around, I'd like to see people finish up on their work on all the other breeds out there before throwing it at Polish and not finishing them too. Polish have plenty enough neat rare and needs-improvement colors, same as Lavender having a lot of breeds it seriously needs work with. Most Lavenders out there are all about the $$ not the color being on a true to type breed.

My opinion though.

 

[ultra1classic]

Quote:
so if I'm understanding this right is is more appropriate to produce and distribute mutts from polish stock that will do absolutely nothing to benefit the breed than it is to take on a project to attempt to get another color accepted for the breed.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=614251

 

[love-my-wolves]

Quote:
Thankfully no, far as I know at least.

why "thankfully no"?

I think lavender would be great, you gonna give it a go Bob????

OH, and my babies are so big they went into the grow out pen yesterday!!! Well, except one of the "surprise" silkies, I think she's a runt, still the same exact size as when you gave her to me, and barely feathered out at all! And she's loud and the boss!!! How long before I should be able to tell whether the Polish are boys or girls? Hopefully I have a pair!

I forgot how old they were when I picked them up

 

[Sportsterjeep]

Quote:
I will agree with you to a point. This was discussed on another thread about the latest "fads". The latest fads always bring super high money at the beginning, followed by people growing out and either selling eggs, chicks, or birds, in order to recoup their initial cost. This is where it is up to the responsable breeders to do the right thing. I have some of these fad breeds, paint silkies, silver laced brahmas, and tolbunt polish. The difference is, I have no intention of turning around and selling any of these to recoup any cost or get my name out there. These 3 breeds need work to get to where they should be. Quite honestly, the paints are the ones that are the closest to the standard of all three of those that I have, Look at the auctions and see how many people are putting junk out. I was criticized not to long ago for kill culling birds that don't make the cut, on the same page a few post down from that someone asked why more people didn't breed like the old timers. Truth is, most people don't put the work into it the way the oldtimers did. And many of those oldtimers don't have the patience to come over here and listen to nonsense from someone who has less years on this earth than they have breeding birds. Many of the oldtimers didn't want to turn out junk, they wanted it right, and they wouldn't let anything out of their flocks until it was right. I sat with an old breeder and had him instruct me how to cull junk right out of the incubator so I wasn't even feeding something that wouldn't make the cut. Many new breeders can't or won't do that.

This is how I feel about those "fad breeds". If more breeders took the time to actually work on something, and do it right, we wouldn't see all the junk coming down the line. I truly believed that if more breeders completely eliminated the bad traits coming out of a variety by burying them, we wouldn't see the amount of poor birds that sometimes disgusts me. You yourself have one of these so called "fad breeds" with the tolbunts. So to you I will issue a challenge, do the breed justice. Don't release anything from your flock if there is a chance that the person receiving it will not help out the variety. Don't be one of these small time backyard hatchery wannabe's that's there only to make a buck. Work hard at it, learn from yours and others mistakes, mine included. You eluded to some problems with your tolbunt and laced crosses and chick vitality. I just posted about this on the tolbunt thread with my experience to that.
I am all for new varieties that are done right. There are people on this website working at creating new varieties. I have seen chocolate silkies, chocolate orps, lavender wheaten ams, chocolate wyandottes, crele polish, large fowl silkies, and many other projects listed within these pages. However I don't see these flooding the poultry community yet so that tells me that we still have breeders who are truly working on projects and not just putting out junk.

 

[riane'smimi]

Quote:
I will agree with you to a point. This was discussed on another thread about the latest "fads". The latest fads always bring super high money at the beginning, followed by people growing out and either selling eggs, chicks, or birds, in order to recoup their initial cost. This is where it is up to the responsable breeders to do the right thing. I have some of these fad breeds, paint silkies, silver laced brahmas, and tolbunt polish. The difference is, I have no intention of turning around and selling any of these to recoup any cost or get my name out there. These 3 breeds need work to get to where they should be. Quite honestly, the paints are the ones that are the closest to the standard of all three of those that I have, Look at the auctions and see how many people are putting junk out. I was criticized not to long ago for kill culling birds that don't make the cut, on the same page a few post down from that someone asked why more people didn't breed like the old timers. Truth is, most people don't put the work into it the way the oldtimers did. And many of those oldtimers don't have the patience to come over here and listen to nonsense from someone who has less years on this earth than they have breeding birds. Many of the oldtimers didn't want to turn out junk, they wanted it right, and they wouldn't let anything out of their flocks until it was right. This is how I feel about those "fad breeds". If more breeders took the time to actually work on something, and do it right, we wouldn't see all the junk coming down the line. I truly believed that if more breeders completely eliminated the bad traits coming out of a variety by burying them, we wouldn't see the amount of poor birds that sometimes disgusts me. You yourself have one of these so called "fad breeds" with the tolbunts. So to you I will issue a challenge, do the breed justice. Don't release anything from your flock if there is a chance that the person receiving it will not help out the variety. Don't be one of these small time backyard hatchery wannabe's that's there only to make a buck. Work hard at it, learn from yours and others mistakes, mine included. You eluded to some problems with your tolbunt and laced crosses and chick vitality. I just posted about this on the tolbunt thread with my experience to that.
I am all for new varieties that are done right. There are people on this website working at creating new varieties. I have seen chocolate silkies, chocolate orps, lavender wheaten ams, chocolate wyandottes, crele polish, large fowl silkies, and many other projects listed within these pages. However I don't see these flooding the poultry community yet so that tells me that we still have breeders who are truly working on projects and not just putting out junk.

Very well said

 

[riane'smimi]

Quote:
so if I'm understanding this right is is more appropriate to produce and distribute mutts from polish stock that will do absolutely nothing to benefit the breed than it is to take on a project to attempt to get another color accepted for the breed.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=614251

Good question. I was dumbfounded when I saw that last night.Come to think of it I still am.

 

[ultra1classic]

Quote:
I will agree with you to a point. This was discussed on another thread about the latest "fads". The latest fads always bring super high money at the beginning, followed by people growing out and either selling eggs, chicks, or birds, in order to recoup their initial cost. This is where it is up to the responsable breeders to do the right thing. I have some of these fad breeds, paint silkies, silver laced brahmas, and tolbunt polish. The difference is, I have no intention of turning around and selling any of these to recoup any cost or get my name out there. These 3 breeds need work to get to where they should be. Quite honestly, the paints are the ones that are the closest to the standard of all three of those that I have, Look at the auctions and see how many people are putting junk out. I was criticized not to long ago for kill culling birds that don't make the cut, on the same page a few post down from that someone asked why more people didn't breed like the old timers. Truth is, most people don't put the work into it the way the oldtimers did. And many of those oldtimers don't have the patience to come over here and listen to nonsense from someone who has less years on this earth than they have breeding birds. Many of the oldtimers didn't want to turn out junk, they wanted it right, and they wouldn't let anything out of their flocks until it was right. I sat with an old breeder and had him instruct me how to cull junk right out of the incubator so I wasn't even feeding something that wouldn't make the cut. Many new breeders can't or won't do that.

This is how I feel about those "fad breeds". If more breeders took the time to actually work on something, and do it right, we wouldn't see all the junk coming down the line. I truly believed that if more breeders completely eliminated the bad traits coming out of a variety by burying them, we wouldn't see the amount of poor birds that sometimes disgusts me. You yourself have one of these so called "fad breeds" with the tolbunts. So to you I will issue a challenge, do the breed justice. Don't release anything from your flock if there is a chance that the person receiving it will not help out the variety. Don't be one of these small time backyard hatchery wannabe's that's there only to make a buck. Work hard at it, learn from yours and others mistakes, mine included. You eluded to some problems with your tolbunt and laced crosses and chick vitality. I just posted about this on the tolbunt thread with my experience to that.
I am all for new varieties that are done right. There are people on this website working at creating new varieties. I have seen chocolate silkies, chocolate orps, lavender wheaten ams, chocolate wyandottes, crele polish, large fowl silkies, and many other projects listed within these pages. However I don't see these flooding the poultry community yet so that tells me that we still have breeders who are truly working on projects and not just putting out junk.

well said bro ...i wont even sell chicks/eggs from my. birds with a new roo in the pen till i have hatched and grown out birds to ensure they are quality i want my name associated with...unfortunately many folks seem to think "old school" culling is cruel

 

[Illia]

Quote:
so if I'm understanding this right is is more appropriate to produce and distribute mutts from polish stock that will do absolutely nothing to benefit the breed than it is to take on a project to attempt to get another color accepted for the breed.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=614251

You're comparing a winter-season mixed breeding with fad colors? Yes I plan to continue with mixed birds that have Tolbunt in their genes, but, I'm not introducing it to a new breed nor looking for $$ for it. And, I am still doing Tolbunt Polish. Which is an already-existing needs to be worked on color.

I understand the confusion and the belief that I may be doing something hypocritical but I'm simply offering an idea, a mutt-type one with serious variants at that, and not starting off with a high or even moderate price, - And still, not wasting it on birds I could instead use for a useful project. A male Polish of a color who can use some serious work can do two breedings at once

And I'm not even hatching anything for myself right now, I'm merely offering what mutts will come out of the temporary phase my flock is in.

If anything I'm giving someone a chance to have fun with some colored eggs AND colored birds. Nothing more, really.

 

[ScaredOfShadows]

riane'smimi :

Quote:
so if I'm understanding this right is is more appropriate to produce and distribute mutts from polish stock that will do absolutely nothing to benefit the breed than it is to take on a project to attempt to get another color accepted for the breed.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=614251

Good question. I was dumbfounded when I saw that last night.Come to think of it I still am.​

I think what was trying to be said is that more people need to sit on the colors that are already there and work on those, as opposed to trying to create more new "fad" colors. The tolbunt is a beautiful color, it is not yet recognized right? More people need to work on getting this color true and recognized. To recognize a color you need atleast 5 breeders, 5 years of breeding records, and X number of birds over those 5 years and show birds as AOV. There is also the frizzled polish and the color varieties there in the frizzled variety, these need working on. Cuckoo is another color that still needs more good solid breeders out there.

Sportsterjeep : I agree there are so many new colors and mutt colors out there and they are just being tossed out as they go, eggs and chicks and adults sold left and right, SQ,BQ,PQ - everything. I agree if your going to be a breeder, do it right and cull hard, get yourself good birds, don't sell junk and don't sell from birds that produce much junk. However I see nothing wrong with selling or giving culls away to someone who 1. is just a backyard owner and wants a pretty flock of colorful birds, or to someone who will eat the culls. I do this, I sell off my culls to people who will eat them, or to a few friends who just have them as pets.

 

[Illia]

I guess I should re-word - Comparison of an honestly labelled "mutt" with high variety in color, type, egg color, etc is not the same, at least in my opinion, as a claimed purebred of a color that is well sought after when the birds do not match the standard very well, and are no better than the other many many sources of that color and that breed, all who are at high prices.

I don't mean to offend anyone, I just mean to say that when it comes to a purebred breed with a special color, I'd love to see more work on the breed standard, since Lavender in example is a relatively straight-forward color, before we advance forward. It's like having unfinished homework but deciding to do extra-credit too before the homework. Tolbunt needs work as a color too but also for the breed, but introducing the conceptual color and all its out-crossed possibilities to a mutt-makeup for a different color of egg, claiming honestly that it is a mutt and is highly variant, is that the same?

(as to a purebred with a rare color but the birds in example hardly match the breed standard, and most out there don't appear to be improving in type)

I do understand the love of seeing a Lavender Polish, yes, I'm just stating that perhaps we consider the fad-color consequence too.


If I still sound like a hypocrite I'm open to hearing that