I need a little advice please

[WILIFORD]

Sexing barred varieties is the same, no matter Doms or BRs. It is an art, not a science and some chicks can have confusing traits, some lines of BRs are easier to sex than others, etc. But, the gist of it is you take three traits together to sex a newly hatched, fluffed out chick.

1) head spot...males have a more scattered, sometimes larger head spot with "frosting" around the back of the head. Females have a more defined head spot, can be tiny or larger, but it is more contained and no "frosting".
2) Down color...males are grayish, faded black. Females are just black-black, darker.
3) Leg color...males have either no dark wash color down the leg or it's just sketchy. Females usually have dark wash down the leg fronts and into the toes.

Taken together you can make an educated guess on the sex of a barred chick, IF it's a pure one. A barred chick can come from a sire that is barred because he passes his barring to all his progeny and a non-barred hen. Hens pass one barring gene to sons and nothing to daughters, however, if the hen is not barred, she will not pass to either, but you'll get a barred chick from a barred sire, but you won't be able to reliably sex that chick. I hope this makes sense. A barring gene can't be completely hidden. I once had a Blue Orpington who carried a barring gene, probably from ancestry of a Barred Rock/Blue Rock that they at one time used in the Blue Orp lines, long story, and you could not tell except by his sickle feathers. I never really noticed it until he and a Buff Orp/RIR cross hen produced a completely barred chick. Shocked the heck out of me and I finally saw those bars.

I appreciate the information I will put it to use tonight.

 

[WILIFORD]

Sexing barred varieties is the same, no matter Doms or BRs. It is an art, not a science and some chicks can have confusing traits, some lines of BRs are easier to sex than others, etc. But, the gist of it is you take three traits together to sex a newly hatched, fluffed out chick.

1) head spot...males have a more scattered, sometimes larger head spot with "frosting" around the back of the head. Females have a more defined head spot, can be tiny or larger, but it is more contained and no "frosting".
2) Down color...males are grayish, faded black. Females are just black-black, darker.
3) Leg color...males have either no dark wash color down the leg or it's just sketchy. Females usually have dark wash down the leg fronts and into the toes.

Taken together you can make an educated guess on the sex of a barred chick, IF it's a pure one. A barred chick can come from a sire that is barred because he passes his barring to all his progeny and a non-barred hen. Hens pass one barring gene to sons and nothing to daughters, however, if the hen is not barred, she will not pass to either, but you'll get a barred chick from a barred sire, but you won't be able to reliably sex that chick. I hope this makes sense. A barring gene can't be completely hidden. I once had a Blue Orpington who carried a barring gene, probably from ancestry of a Barred Rock/Blue Rock that they at one time used in the Blue Orp lines, long story, and you could not tell except by his sickle feathers. I never really noticed it until he and a Buff Orp/RIR cross hen produced a completely barred chick. Shocked the heck out of me and I finally saw those bars.

you know now that you mentioned it, I did noticed some were an almost ash gray color and some were a pretty pronounced black. Surely it can't be that easy.

 

[Chickassan]

You can sex dominiques pretty reliably with legs too.
Females will have much more black coloration on their actual legs and feet than males.

 

[aart]

I kind of wonder how much the shipping across the country might have played into this. I live in California and these eggs were shipped from No. Carolina.

Absolutely.

 

[speckledhen]

you know now that you mentioned it, I did noticed some were an almost ash gray color and some were a pretty pronounced black. Surely it can't be that easy.

No, not that easy, always. And as Chickassan says in the quote below, the leg color seems more reliable than the head spot sometimes. As I said, it takes all three traits, taken together, to sex a barred chick.

You can sex dominiques pretty reliably with legs too.
Females will have much more black coloration on their actual legs and feet than males.

 

[WILIFORD]

No, not that easy, always. And as Chickassan says in the quote below, the leg color seems more reliable than the head spot sometimes. As I said, it takes all three traits, taken together, to sex a barred chick.

Well I have a lot more ammunition now than I did last night. When I get home I'm going to put this information to use and figure this out. I'll let you guys know how that goes

 

[WILIFORD]

I did pay attention to what everyone was saying. Especially regarding the humidity level I was incubating at. The irritating part is, both the manual for my incubator, and the information from the company I ordered the eggs from, specified a humidity level of 50-60% during incubation and 65-75 during lockdown. In doing more research, my next cycle I plan to run 40-50% humidity during incubation, and 60% during lockdown. And maintaining temperature as close to 99.5 as possible, Although my temperature was good and stable through out this first attempt, I believe the humidity is what killed me. Please advise me if you believe this is right, or wrong. You're not going to hurt my feelings. I want the best opportunity for success.
I would appreciate as much input as I can get.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I think you are on the right track. Each incubator is different, even incubators of the same make and model. The commercial operations use huge incubators, some that hold as many as 120,000 eggs. If they move one from one place in the hatching room to another location they have to tweak it to get the maximum hatches. There is no one humidity during incubation or during lockdown that is optimum for everyone worldwide. There are a lot of different reasons for that.

The idea is that the egg has to lose a certain amount of moisture so it can hatch properly. Nature was pretty kind to us. Instead of having to hit the correct moisture loss perfectly, nature gave us a range we need to hit. That range is fairly wide but we still need to be somewhere within that range. There are limits.

Each egg is different. Some are more porous than others which means they lose moisture at different rates. Some have thicker whites than others. Eggs being stored for incubation lose moisture as they are being stored. How much they lose depends on how long they are stored and in what conditions they are stored. The perfect humidity for each egg you put in the incubator is going to be different for each egg. What you are trying to find is the humidity that works for the most of the eggs. So that is challenge #1.

There are a lot of different things that affect how much moisture is lost other than the differences in the eggs. A still air incubator acts differently than a forced air. The amount of ventilation has an effect. Height above sea level is a factor because of air pressure. The temperature and humidity level of the air going into the incubator has an effect. I'm sure I'm missing a lot of variables.

It sounds like you are planning to do what I have been suggesting for years. Select a starting place and see what happens. Be as consistent as you can. The manufacturers recommendations are a pretty good starting place. After each hatch analyze your results. An eggtopsy is a good idea. Then try something else if you are not happy with the results. Keep tweaking it until you are satisfied.

My incubator manufacturer recommended filling certain water reservoirs during incubation and filling an additional one during hatch instead of mentioning humidities. They had four different water reservoirs I could use. Sometimes the actual humidity could vary 20% or more depending on the time of the year and other factors with the same reservoir filled so I experimented. It took me a few hatches to determine that if I averaged about 40% humidity during incubation and had the humidity at least 65% with higher OK during lockdown that I did really well. As long as it isn't too low I found that lockdown humidity wasn't that important for me. When chicks started hatching and releasing moisture my humidity in there would really jump. That did not seem to have an effect on the later ones hatching.

Some people find that averaging 30% during incubation works best for them, others do best with over 50% humidity during incubation. I don't have a clue what will do best for you.

As a general rule (there are always exceptions) if an egg stops developing in the first week of development it is often due to something that happened before the eggs went in the incubator. Eggs being shaken up during shipping would be an example. If an egg stops developing or dies late in the incubation it probably has something to do with the actual incubation. Temperature, humidity, or improper turning as easy examples, there are others. Trying to determine exactly what that cause was can be really challenging.

Good luck!

 

[WILIFORD]

I think you are on the right track. Each incubator is different, even incubators of the same make and model. The commercial operations use huge incubators, some that hold as many as 120,000 eggs. If they move one from one place in the hatching room to another location they have to tweak it to get the maximum hatches. There is no one humidity during incubation or during lockdown that is optimum for everyone worldwide. There are a lot of different reasons for that.

The idea is that the egg has to lose a certain amount of moisture so it can hatch properly. Nature was pretty kind to us. Instead of having to hit the correct moisture loss perfectly, nature gave us a range we need to hit. That range is fairly wide but we still need to be somewhere within that range. There are limits.

Each egg is different. Some are more porous than others which means they lose moisture at different rates. Some have thicker whites than others. Eggs being stored for incubation lose moisture as they are being stored. How much they lose depends on how long they are stored and in what conditions they are stored. The perfect humidity for each egg you put in the incubator is going to be different for each egg. What you are trying to find is the humidity that works for the most of the eggs. So that is challenge #1.

There are a lot of different things that affect how much moisture is lost other than the differences in the eggs. A still air incubator acts differently than a forced air. The amount of ventilation has an effect. Height above sea level is a factor because of air pressure. The temperature and humidity level of the air going into the incubator has an effect. I'm sure I'm missing a lot of variables.

It sounds like you are planning to do what I have been suggesting for years. Select a starting place and see what happens. Be as consistent as you can. The manufacturers recommendations are a pretty good starting place. After each hatch analyze your results. An eggtopsy is a good idea. Then try something else if you are not happy with the results. Keep tweaking it until you are satisfied.

My incubator manufacturer recommended filling certain water reservoirs during incubation and filling an additional one during hatch instead of mentioning humidities. They had four different water reservoirs I could use. Sometimes the actual humidity could vary 20% or more depending on the time of the year and other factors with the same reservoir filled so I experimented. It took me a few hatches to determine that if I averaged about 40% humidity during incubation and had the humidity at least 65% with higher OK during lockdown that I did really well. As long as it isn't too low I found that lockdown humidity wasn't that important for me. When chicks started hatching and releasing moisture my humidity in there would really jump. That did not seem to have an effect on the later ones hatching.

Some people find that averaging 30% during incubation works best for them, others do best with over 50% humidity during incubation. I don't have a clue what will do best for you.

As a general rule (there are always exceptions) if an egg stops developing in the first week of development it is often due to something that happened before the eggs went in the incubator. Eggs being shaken up during shipping would be an example. If an egg stops developing or dies late in the incubation it probably has something to do with the actual incubation. Temperature, humidity, or improper turning as easy examples, there are others. Trying to determine exactly what that cause was can be really challenging.

Good luck!

Well the ones I hatched were shipped from North Carolina to California so I'm sure that was part of it. I thinking next time of weighing the eggs before incubation, and then about 3-4 points during the process, to chart the average weight loss. Your thoughts?

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don't do that but many people do. You can weigh each egg individually but what you are really after is the weight loss of the group. People have done that on here and posted the results as they go. It can be surprising how different each egg can be.

Some people candle and draw the air cell to see how it is growing. There is a bit of judgment involved in doing that but it is a good permanent record on the shell.

With both methods the idea is to adjust the humidity based on what results you are seeing. If you are a hands-on type of person either might suit you well. Either one should give you an idea of what is going on.