I think I found a miracle cure for feather picking

[azygous]

Lacy, thanks so much for that report on the necropsy you did on your feather picker! I know this will be very valuable information as time goes on, another little piece of the big puzzle. I'll definitely be planting beets this spring, as well as encouraging the dandelions.

I also have something new and interesting to report on Flo's behavior. Today, her past main victim Joycie zipped into the jail since she wanted the carrot I'd just hung for Flo. As Flo approached her, Joycie reared up in an "alpha" posture, and Flo backed right off. A couple more times, when Flo tried to approach, Joycie pecked at her and she kept away from her after that. So it appears that if the victim has a change in behavior, this can affect the feather picker's behavior. I'll need to observe these two further before making any real conclusions, though.

 

[azygous]

Okay, scratch that "recent development". I just let Joycie into the jail for another visit, and Flo, in record time, liberated two of Joycie's butt feathers. Flo may have been distracted earlier by the need to lay her egg. After experiencing relief from laying, she was able to focus all her concentration on Joycie's butt feathers.

 

[equius]

I'll be interested to see how it works, my hens really love it too and my egg production has increased by almost 50% after I began feeding the new feed with Forco added.

 

[aart]

This bird was 10 months old. She just started doing this within the last week or so as everybody was beautiful up until then. I'm watching the flock when I can to see if anyone else is doing it. Their protein level is fine.

ETA: I didn't open her up to examine her liver. I can't see not using the meat and I was processing her and when I saw her liver's color, I was somewhat shocked. Checked out some information and thought I would share.

Just wondered how long the problem had been going on and whether you had tried anything else to stop it.
If you had tried other things first it may have given more clues as to why the color of the liver was funky.

I was not, and am not, criticizing your actions or decisions. Am curious and very analytical by nature, have run hundreds of experiments where all the variables and information is important to come to a quantifiable conclusion.

 

[azygous]

The new feed plus Forco is a huge hit with the entire flock. Flo's feeder has the new feed exclusively. The rest have a feeder containing the new feed and another feeder with the conventional layer feed. They're pretty much ignoring the conventional layer feed.

It's too soon to talk about any noticeable results other than everyone is enjoying mealtime a whole lot more.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Just wondered how long the problem had been going on and whether you had tried anything else to stop it.
If you had tried other things first it may have given more clues as to why the color of the liver was funky.

I was not, and am not, criticizing your actions or decisions. Am curious and very analytical by nature, have run hundreds of experiments where all the variables and information is important to come to a quantifiable conclusion.

I think the problem had been going on for roughly a week or a little more because as I said, before that, everyone was beautiful, excepting of course, the rooster's favorite gal! In order to stop the picking I have done everything I've listed on this thread. I don't know if you've been here for the whole thing or read the whole thing yet. It's only on the 21st page so it wouldn't take you long to read it all. I add salt on occasion (just a little) and greens if I have them, meats when I can get them and cat food when I can't.

Their diet is mostly fermented grains, sprouts of varying seeds, and fodder. Plus the above additions.

This bird was from my meat flock so I have far less patience when it comes to dealing with this issue than with my heritage/show (endangered) birds.

Also, like I said in the first post on this matter, USUALLY when I process a bird, the liver is a nice dark healthy red. All my birds get the same food and have since many months gone by. They all have had healthy livers except this girl.

I'll be trying the beets and dandelions as soon as I am able and trying to make it a regular part of my flock's diet.

 

[FireTigeris]

Well here's my update I was running a test with pictures and weights and gender and ages if known (the ages and when young enough the gender)

And a coyote and her two cubs came by (adult was taller then the pittbull shorter then the greyhound) and ate the experimental flock. I save one duck from their mouth- as my dogs tore out to get them... whoever had bit her dropped her- they went off under the house where more carnage lay (all my boys).

So I'm going to have to start over with a new bucket-

It DOES keep my dogs from farting and cleared up the 'light' demodex and improved the coat quality on the dogs.

If ya'll want before and after and way after pictures of that I have them.

 

[azygous]

That's certainly depressing! Before the coyotes ate the lab experiment, had you noticed the Forco improving feather-regrowth? Did you have a general conclusion?

 

[FireTigeris]

As a scientist I hate using partial data... but...

They were in hard molt when I began and no one way laying. (0 eggs a week per group, 0 broody per group- this did not change in the amount of time I was running the experiment)

I had hoped to run the trial long enough for feather length in the hackles before and after in the roos, and over all condition feather of the hens and roos (subjective but on a 1-5 scale), and eggs per week for the hens, date of first lay, date of fully feathering in the chicks...(chicks and chickens when possible were all split according to parents full siblings divided between the groups)

I have about very little data and the Forco group was holding higher "weight" (mass in grams) on average by a non significant amount (about 1% average) during molt, that is they fluctuated less (or not at all) in weight even with the feathers contributing to weight loss (very nice scale) ... the data is subject to the following errors- last feeding time (amount in crop), movement of bird, last ....um...BM.... (amount in colon), and stress level...% molt (amount of retained feathers), cleanliness (amount of other matter in feathers- IE dust bathing).

That is there was no data yet to help me determine a change between the groups- that doesn't mean over a longer trial there wouldn't have been.

The experimental group had "better" feather condition overall across all of the birds according to subjective test of the remaining feathers- (1-5 scale where 1= "are those feathers?" and 5 = "show quality") the two groups were re-feathering exactly the same amount measured every other day length in mm.
...the data here is subjective and may be due to experimental bias- I did have 'guest' also look at the two groups but I got garbage data from them (those look happier, these look fatter, those feathers are shinier)

.

The condition of the dead birds (besides being dead) was good, they had enough weight that the crest of the keel was palpable but not the pelvis. They are almost all in full feather (same as the control group) and both layers of feathers were nice. I lost 22 birds that day, some not recovered thus ended the trial- I do give anyone pulled from my pen for observation or time out (starting fights etc) Forco and they do love it- but one day here or there does not change condition.

I did not dissect any of the dead as I need time to get the equipment from the university and I had nowhere to store then in the meantime (need to be refrigerated to not damage tissue)- (and I was understandably very very upset ...still...

).

So basically noting useful- really- The attack happened on Vetrans day, I had one duck that was outside and bitten survive- she has lovely feathers a squeaky voice and is not yet laying... her new name is Lady Ruby.

------

My dogs ... have flatulence when not on Forco, and do not have flatulence in a noticeable way when on it at 1 tp per 60 lbs of dog per day- one day off makes them stink up the house... so it does work on dogs- coat condition improved greatly and hot spots were reduced entirely, also some demodex that Amber came with is completely improved, their breath is better and they are more active in terms of #hours sleep per day.
I'm feeding two 60# dogs Diamond Premium Large Breed Adult @ approx 3 cups a day each. + 1tp Forco with food.

My cats won't touch the stuff...

 

[azygous]

Thanks for sharing your data with us. I'm so sorry you lost so many birds that you had put so much effort and time into. It was an overwhelming loss. But you've made a good start in trying to prove Forco "works" on chickens. Only scientific method can do that, and I'm very grateful for your efforts.

That Forco works on improving mammals' general health is pretty much undisputed. My friends report it pretty much eliminating their dogs' urges to eat excrement. They all also report that it controls flatulence.

I have a nineteen-year old cat who has been living with renal failure for over two years. He gets a quarter teaspoon of Forco mixed into mashed pumpkin and strained baby meats, and his coat and over-all health is visibly better, and his vet just saw him for his yearly checkup and rabies shot, and he pronounced him in remarkable shape for his years.

My chickens really go for Forco, and they're all gorgeous birds, no thanks to Flo, who, given the opportunity, would happily shave them all bald. Even though Forco hasn't produced the miracle cure I was hoping for, Flo has filled out, put on weight, and looks beautiful. But she still has the urge to pick feathers at each and every opportunity.