I wish I knew.. DO YOU KNOW?

[orrpeople]

Wow.
So when you sell your chicks, do you tell people you have Marek's in your flock? Because it still seems like saying "We have leprosy" in the chicken world.

 

[duluthralphie]

I have not sold a chick since I found out....however, I think you missed the point.


We all have Mareks..if you own a chicken you have Mareks.


Mareks is everywhere..and everyone has it..most people do no realize this.


I thought about writing an article about everything I have learned about Mareks. I might yet. I practice the tightest bio-security of any small time chicken person I know..people are amazed when they have to wear boots..booties...latex gloves and cannot touch anything when they come here..

No one goes into my hatchery... ( also you missed this) Mareks is horizontally transmitted, so my chicks do NOT have Mareks. Until they touch soil,,,,anywhere at anyone's house...or meet another chicken....anywhere and anyone's.

When I found I had it from the necropsy I was shocked. I asked how I could have gotten it....which takes me back to last post...EVERYONE has it...it is everywhere..most people do not know they have it...

 

[rebrascora]

I had a known Positive bird, BUT I had to kill the bird to check it.

I watched the necropsy, it was interesting, I think I could make an educated guess if I was to do a necropsy on one. The State vet showed me where to look for it.

The state told me in Minnesota every flock will lose 5-10% of the birds to Marek's. Most people will not even think it is Mareks. Mareks is just that common.

There are 6 strains of Mareks now, 100 years ago it was one strain. The last 5 have mutated since the early 80's.

You will read literature saying Turkeys wll help prevent Mareks,,,that is a wives tale. I have a ton of turkeys, they live right with my chickens. I still had at least one mareks death this year and I suspect 10 or so. I raise a LOT of birds, 10 would be 3% of what I kept.

Also the state vet (with a ton of Mareks experience) Said if you have a bird die between 12-25 weeks it is most likely Mareks.


Another common myth is the Marek's vaccine will give your flock Mareks...... Not possible. The vaccine used is a turkey disease closely related to Mareks. It is not a live Marek's disease.

Mareks is not transmitted vertically. It is horizontal. If you have a clean incubator, hatcher and brooder the chicks will not have Mareks. Until they go outside or see another bird....BY CLEAN I mean disinfected, that includes the eggs before going into the incubator. and the equipment.

Mareks takes about 10 weeks to incubate.

I am debating vaccinating, I have no idea what to do. If I vaccinate I run the risk of ruining the resistance and immunity most of my birds have. If I do not I will lose 5-10% every year.

Once I start vaccinating I must continue. For me this is mainly about my flock. The chicks I sell are well isolated and never outside with the other birds. Some here say I go overboard on disinfecting, I do not think so.


Mareks will last years in the soil and on litter. A bird that is resistant or immune will transmit to other birds. If you go to a fair or bird show, you will bring Mareks home. A Tweety bird flying over and crapping will drop mareks...

Mareks is to the bird world what the cold or flu is to humans. Most will get it and you will not notice. Some wll die and you will notice.

Do not think avoiding other birds will keep mareks away. It will not. One trip to the farm store or TSC will bring Mareks home to you if you do not have it..

The state vet told me it makes not difference what you do because all flocks have it.


Testing is a waste of time to me. I now figure. Dead bird under 7 months Mareks. Wry Neck Mareks.... Lame leg or limp...Mareks... Drooped wing Mareks.

I plan to blame everything on Mareks after learning about it..

I asked the state vets why they do not kill flocks or quarantine for Mareks,,,,their reply. Because every flock has it. We would have to kill every bird in the state and keep the state bird free for 60 years...

In my opinion, this post is spot on.
So many people bury their head in the sand about Marek's and will happily accept any other diagnosis rather than see the underlying cause. It is the AIDS of the chicken world in many respects. People don't want to admit their flock has it because of the stigma, like AIDS. It compromises the immune system like AIDS. A bird can have it and appear perfectly healthy and infect many others before the disease becomes apparent, like AIDS. Sadly, unlike AIDS there is currently no treatment.

There is a veterinary practice in the UK that has been offering a similar service to the one mentioned by the OP and I believe the Marek's test is done on a faecal sample. I am a bit sceptical about it too but they are a practice specialising in poultry, which in itself is promising. Had they been a bit nearer I might have been inclined to enquire further, but since they are a long way away and I already know my flock has Marek's and I don't have money to burn, I won't be forking out for a test, just to "test" their test.

 

[rebrascora]

We all have Mareks..if you own a chicken you have Mareks.


Mareks is everywhere..and everyone has it..most people do no realize this

Amongst breeders here in the UK that seems to be the accepted case. People don't openly talk about it but if you mention that you are having problems with it, people consider it more of a flare up.... almost like everyone has it but it settles down to a reasonably low fatality level once the initial outbreak is over, with occasional flare ups.

 

[duluthralphie]

Amongst breeders here in the UK that seems to be the accepted case. People don't openly talk about it but if you mention that you are having problems with it, people consider it more of a flare up.... almost like everyone has it but it settles down to a reasonably low fatality level once the initial outbreak is over, with occasional flare ups.

Most people have such a low number of birds and add birds so infrequently they do not notice a 5% death rate...or think little of it...

I only noticed because I have close to 500 birds here in the summer...5% is 25 birds...I notice 25 dead birds a year...

My actual number of dead is closer to 15 or so,,, but it is still enough to wonder why, and have the necropsy...which is where I found I and everyone else has it

 

[aart]

Mareks is everywhere..and everyone has it..most people do no realize this.

Yep, same goes for Leukosis...both caused by a virus and can't be distinguished without pathology.

 

[orrpeople]

I would be super curious to know what you decide in relation to vaccination @duluthralphie - one reason @casportpony sent me to this thread is that I've been bugging the pond people about their opinions.
Also, I think an article debunking the Marek's myths might definitely be in order. As I've been reading, talking to the vet, etc., I've encountered the exact same thing - it's the outbreaks that draw us to the conclusion we have something seriously wrong - but quite possibly, my flock of largely vaccinated birds could have been carriers from day one.

 

[orrpeople]

And, can I ask which breeds had the most severe outbreak? I lost 4 of 6 Cream Legbars, 2 of 3 Speckled Sussex and 1 Brahma (she was the only vaccinated bird I lost, but I think her immune system was compromised because she was constantly broody this summer - or it could have been heat related...dunno)

 

[CSAchook]

And, can I ask which breeds had the most severe outbreak? I lost 4 of 6 Cream Legbars, 2 of 3 Speckled Sussex and 1 Brahma (she was the only vaccinated bird I lost, but I think her immune system was compromised because she was constantly broody this summer - or it could have been heat related...dunno)

I also would be interested if anyone has info on more or less susceptible breeds. I have not had a marek's outbreak in my flock (Yet ) but my father lost two birds to it this year. The birds that died were his only Speckled Sussex. So far all the australorps are fine. We both really liked the SS (we bought our chicks together and mine are still going strong) but he may get something else next time if their immunity is low....

Anyways before I ramble on to long, I am glad to have found this thread and excited to hear some Matek's myths busted (or any other info you care to share)

 

[duluthralphie]

I do not consider a loss of 5% of the birds an outbreak if that is normal loss from Marek's. You would have to raise 100 birds to have 5 die. I do not know many people that do not have a loss of 5 birds i 100. Must people need 10 years or more of chicken raising to have raised 100 birds..

That said someone asked what my plans are. I told you my reasons for not vaccinating. I am actually leaning towards vaccinating. I have a bottle/vial of vaccine in my fridge now.

I am going to be cutting down the number of birds I raise next year for personal reasons. I will be visiting lots of farms in the next year, God willing. Some of you know, some do not, I am running for the House of Representatives here in Minnesota. I will not have the time I have this year.

I still want to breed and show birds, that is my hobby. I will not be selling chicks except to a few people and paid for in advance. I will be selling started pullets and roosters later in the year.

By vaccinating I can save myself some money. I paid $22 for 1000 doses of vaccine. It does not come in a smaller batch. That does not seem bad. Here is the catch 22.

The vaccine is in two parts the live virus and a reagent to dilute and get it moving. Once they are mixed you have 1 hour to use it in. After and hour it is worthless. I might stretch that to an hour and 15 but I am gambling then.

It is made for large hatcheries that have these huge machines for giving the vaccine to chicks while still in the egg on day 18. I do not have that machine. The machine will do 10,000 eggs in an hour. I have to give the shot to the chicks one at a time.

I have sold 2 of my incubators to a friend here on BYC. I will be using just 2 this year. Even so I could hatch over 400 eggs on oneday if I wanted. I have lots of foamies too,...I do not want too. I hope to limit my hatches to less than 50 a day. I think I can vaccinate 50 in an hour or little over.

The vaccine takes 10 days to take effect. I will be keeping my chicks away from any contaminated or potential contaminated area for those 10 days. (can you say PITA)...

If they come in contact with the virus it is a race to see if the vaccine or the virus grows first. BTW I saw some called Mareks a mycoplasma, and even I might have. I apologize it is a virus, because it is a virus is why it can live for so long anywhere and every place. It can be carried on a birds foot or a bees butt. Drop off and wait to infect your bird.

At 22 bucks it is cheaper for me to vaccinate and not rol lthe dice on which bird lives. I have had a hard time deciding only because I like the idea of natural substances in my birds.

I have all but decided. To vaccinate because I am simply growing antibodies in the bird that can develop naturally. I am also considering fowl pox vaccine. It costs me time and money to raise birds. I need about 50-60 birds of each breed I show to get 1 or 2 show birds from....(that is if no one steals my birds)..

I am showing second class birds this year because my best were taken by disease or a thief. I will not show second class birds next year.. BTW My second class birds are pretty nice looking in many cases. but they are not show stoppers like I want.

Some one asked about which breeds were more resistant. That is really a question I cannot answer. I have not lost many Doms if any. That just happens to be luck on my part. I have lost Cream legbars and one white legbar for sure. It all depends on the farm, the strain of Mareks and the line of birds more than the breed.

I do know Murphy's law hits hard and my line of Speckled Sussex were hit hard. Not much help there, guys and gals, sorry.

If I am going to start vaccinating I will look at all available. I will not be doing New Castle or any other disease not in this area presently. Here i a link to some vaccines available and an interesting read:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps030