I wish I knew.. DO YOU KNOW?

[Krazyquilts]

True Dat, my bro was certified years ago until it became a money making marketing ploy and the certification process got more expensive and much 'looser'.
Boils down to 'know your farmer'.

It's the bulk and widespread marketing term use that irks me.....
.....along with all the other 'natural' buzzwords. GrrrSNAP!

I have a funny story about "buzzwords." We are friends with an awesome beekeeper at our farmers market (I swear we singlehandedly keep her in business!) and while chatting with her one day, someone came up, looked over her honey, and in all seriousness began to point to each jar in turn and ask: "Is this free range honey? How about this one, is this free range honey?"

The poor vendor bit her tongue and very politely told the customer that, yes, all her honey was indeed "free range honey." After the customer left (without buying anything), we all cracked up in hysterics laughing about bees in tiny little cages with little troughs of pollen.

 

[microchick]

Never underestimate the power of human ignorance.

Off subject but in the same line, we have a friend who is a professional bicycle racer from Britian who 'pilots' our speed bike for us when we race it. Years ago he was working in a bike shop and had a customer call and ask him in all seriousness if they had any yellow bicycles in stock. Our friend replied why yes, they did but why did he want a yellow bike in particular. The customer replied why because everyone knows yellow bike are faster than any other color.Our friend said he paused for a moment and replied in a perfect American 'hillbilly' accent why heck yeah we got them yeller bicycles. Everbody knows them are the fastest bikes goin!' The customer actually did buy a yellow bike from him but I have to admit it was pretty chuckleatious hearing an Englishman pull off that accent.

It all boils down to being an informed buyer when it comes to anything. I think there are truly scrupulous people out there who struggle to grow and produce 'organic' products. Then there are those who don't and are truly ripping off the public.

It's a proven fact taht the Amish community overall has a lower incidence of cancers due mainly to the fact that they grow and produce the bulk of their own food. On the other hand they also have a higher incidence of heart disease due to the high consumption of 'bad' fat in the meat they eat. So nothing wrong in trying to eliminate all the processed food intake that you can.

BUT! I seriously cannot see anyone who has Marek's in their flock raising an organic flock. My birds are always being dosed down for something it seems due to the fact that they are now more susceptible to parasites and infections. Somebody has runny poop....time to worm. Who just sneezed? Oops, somebody else just sneezed, time to put Tera-Vet in the water. One problem breeds a host of others and while we do not butcher birds to eat we do eat eggs which is one of the reasons I wanted chickens was so I could produce my own eggs for us to eat and know what went into the hen that laid them.

Well, I do know...sigh. Tera-vet, Corid, Safe Guard, Ivermectin, aspirin, apple cider vinigar, garlic............So much for the idea of low maintenance chickens.

 

[Sunshine Flock]

I hope you have been able to find some encouragement on this thread.
Chickens have a flock preservation mentality - they do not tolerate birds who appear sick or infirm in any way. Two consequences of this are that they bully and or try to drive out the weakened bird, and a sick bird will do everything in its power to hide symptoms. I can only speak about my observations, but "hunching" their bodies and standing still for long periods are my "oh no!" indicators. Because I am really trying to get rid of any active strain, I immediately cull those birds (I know, it seems heartless - and many disagree with me on this) because sick birds shed a higher volume of the virus.
Your best course of action may be to isolate your sickest, most picked on bird. The stress of the flock dynamics can also increase the outbreak (also stress factors like parasite overload, breeding issues, change of seasons, etc. can cause the disease to crop up with more frequency - a lot like herpes in people). When they are sassy and happy, they tend to do much better!
It is truly devastating when the birds you love become ill, and I am so sorry for your losses.

I'm wondering if this forum sees a noticeable increase in sick chickens during the summer/fall or fall/winter transition.

 

[Krazyquilts]

Well, I do know...sigh. Tera-vet, Corid, Safe Guard, Ivermectin, aspirin, apple cider vinigar, garlic............So much for the idea of low maintenance chickens.

So true! I was just talking to a sort of "chicken mentor" while trying to figure out what's wrong with my chickens and we both decided that it would be smarter to just stick with ducks because neither of us has had more than one or two fairly small health problems with ducks whereas with chickens it seems like there's always something!

 

[Krazyquilts]

I'm wondering if this forum sees a noticeable increase in sick chickens during the summer/fall or fall/winter transition.

That's something I'd like to know too.

 

[orrpeople]

That's something I'd like to know too.

I think the answer is yes. Stress of any kind can increase the likelihood of an outbreak. Molting and breeding season seem to be hard on them. But, also any time where other factors aren't kept in check (parasites, flock dynamics, etc.) can result in an uptick of Marek's related deaths. "Keep them happy and healthy" is the mantra for flocks dealing with the disease.

 

[microchick]

Not always easy to do. Chickens, like humans, seem to have the gift for making their own stress just by roosters squabbling over who is the biggest baddest rooster in the coop. Or one hen deciding to use another hen's favorite nesting box.

This past year, I began noticing things going downhill in February. I removed extra roosters from the coop and put them in a rooster pen and they still were declining because they weren't happy in the rooster pen. But put them in the main coop and they were fighting and harrassing the hens and dropping like flies. Wasn't anything to do other than let it run it's course.

I lost on the average of 3 birds a month until July. When the temps went up, the losses decreased. Two weeks ago I put a 18 month old hen down. She had been hale and hearty, then suddenly lost weight, developed diarrhea and that was the end for her. I found her one morning sitting away from the flock feathers fluffed and her eyes closed. That is my "oh no" moment with my birds. Some birds go fast, others I can't figure out why they haven't died on me yet. I have 4 birds with ocular Marek's disease. three are Buff O's or BO/Welsummer cross hens and one is a rooster. One hen will be three in February. I keep looking at her and asking her, "Aggie, why aren't you dead yet?" and she just cocks her head at me and carries on. She lost feathers over a year ago to over zealous roosters and has never grown them back...two molts later. She looks scruffy and weird with her one grey pin point pupil eye but she is a first class broody when she sets her mind to it. I offered to knit her a sweater today as the temps haven't gotten out of the 30s.

So here is a question for everyone with Marek's. What is the lifespan of a bird with ocular Marek's compared with the neuro/visceral forms of the disease?

While not as fat and sassy as the hens that are looking more resistant to the disease they are holding their own compared to the birds that I'm keeping an eye on for weight loss and listlessness.

 

[Sunshine Flock]

Seasonal disorder affects people, and I'm guessing perhaps more strongly in certain climates and locations. But across the spectrum of locations, I think people are affected in varying degrees.

And so it makes sense the same would be true for animals.

My cats and dogs winterize, a term I use to reference changing patterns I observe with them throughout the season changeover. It'd be interesting specific to Mareks to track seasonal increases in outbreak and deaths.

Of course, this would mean testing, and I think most people don't do this.

 

[Sunshine Flock]

Not always easy to do. Chickens, like humans, seem to have the gift for making their own stress just by roosters squabbling over who is the biggest baddest rooster in the coop. Or one hen deciding to use another hen's favorite nesting box.

This past year, I began noticing things going downhill in February. I removed extra roosters from the coop and put them in a rooster pen and they still were declining because they weren't happy in the rooster pen. But put them in the main coop and they were fighting and harrassing the hens and dropping like flies. Wasn't anything to do other than let it run it's course.

I lost on the average of 3 birds a month until July. When the temps went up, so did the losses. Two weeks ago I put a 18 month old hen down. She had been hale and hearty, then suddenly lost weight, developed diarrhea and that was the end for her. I found her one morning sitting away from the flock feathers fluffed and her eyes closed. That is my "oh no" moment with my birds. Some birds go fast, others I can't figure out why they haven't died on me yet. I have 4 birds with ocular Marek's disease. three are Buff O's or BO/Welsummer cross hens and one is a rooster. One hen will be three in February. I keep looking at her and asking her, "Aggie, why aren't you dead yet?" and she just cocks her head at me and carries on. She lost feathers over a year ago to over zealous roosters and has never grown them back...two molts later. She looks scruffy and weird with her one grey pin point pupil eye but she is a first class broody when she sets her mind to it. I offered to knit her a sweater today as the temps haven't gotten out of the 30s.

So here is a question for everyone with Marek's. What is the lifespan of a bird with ocular Marek's compared with the neuro/visceral forms of the disease?

While not as fat and sassy as the hens that are looking more resistant to the disease they are holding their own compared to the birds that I'm keeping an eye on for weight loss and listlessness.

But did she accept your kind offer of a knitted sweater? I've heard some chickens prefer crocheted.

 

[microchick]

She declined but said she wouldn't mind a new hen apron...quilted thank you.