If I bred two sapphire gems together would I get any true offspring?

[NinjaGamer2022]

I understand that Sapphire Gems are not a solid breed and not all if any of the offsping will be a Sapphire Gem. But has anyone on here bred two Sapphire Gems together? How likely would the offspring be a Sapphire Gem? Thx,

 

[NatJ]

If Sapphire Gems all have blue feathers, lay brown eggs, and can be sexed by color at hatch: you will not get any actual Sapphire Gems. But yes, some of their chicks will have quite a few traits in common with the parents.

They should breed true for brown egg color, and probably for good laying ability.

Feather colors will include several different options:

About 50% of offspring (both genders) will be blue, about 25% will be black, and about 25% will be splash.
Depending on what exact cross is used to make Sapphire Gems, up to about 1/4 of the offspring might be colored similar to a Rhode Island Red or a Columbian Wyandotte or a Delaware. (All of those have large amounts of red or white, in addition to some black in the tail and maybe around the neck. With blue parents, you might get tails/necks that show blue, or splash.) Or that might not happen, and you might just have plain black, blue, and splash offspring.

If Sapphire Gem males have white barring (making the chicks color-sexable), then breeding them will produce chicks that can NOT be sexed by color. You wil get sons & daughters with white barring, and sons & daughters with no white barring. (The other colors I mentioned in the previous paragraph cannot be used to sex the chicks either. If you hatch large numbers of chicks, you should see both males and females in every possible color and combination.)

If Sapphire Gem males do not have white barring, then you will not see it in any of their chicks. But I'm fairly sure Sapphire Gem males DO have white barring.


Once they are old enough to sort out the genders, yes there should be some daughters that look like Sapphire Gems (blue feathers, no barring, no other colors peeking through), and they should grow & lay about the same as actual Sapphire Gemes. I probably would not call them "Sapphire Gems," mainly because I know the color-sexing doesn't work for them, but they certainly would be a lot like Sapphire Gems.

 

[NinjaGamer2022]

If Sapphire Gems all have blue feathers, lay brown eggs, and can be sexed by color at hatch: you will not get any actual Sapphire Gems. But yes, some of their chicks will have quite a few traits in common with the parents.

They should breed true for brown egg color, and probably for good laying ability.

Feather colors will include several different options:

About 50% of offspring (both genders) will be blue, about 25% will be black, and about 25% will be splash.
Depending on what exact cross is used to make Sapphire Gems, up to about 1/4 of the offspring might be colored similar to a Rhode Island Red or a Columbian Wyandotte or a Delaware. (All of those have large amounts of red or white, in addition to some black in the tail and maybe around the neck. With blue parents, you might get tails/necks that show blue, or splash.) Or that might not happen, and you might just have plain black, blue, and splash offspring.

If Sapphire Gem males have white barring (making the chicks color-sexable), then breeding them will produce chicks that can NOT be sexed by color. You wil get sons & daughters with white barring, and sons & daughters with no white barring. (The other colors I mentioned in the previous paragraph cannot be used to sex the chicks either. If you hatch large numbers of chicks, you should see both males and females in every possible color and combination.)

If Sapphire Gem males do not have white barring, then you will not see it in any of their chicks. But I'm fairly sure Sapphire Gem males DO have white barring.


Once they are old enough to sort out the genders, yes there should be some daughters that look like Sapphire Gems (blue feathers, no barring, no other colors peeking through), and they should grow & lay about the same as actual Sapphire Gemes. I probably would not call them "Sapphire Gems," mainly because I know the color-sexing doesn't work for them, but they certainly would be a lot like Sapphire Gems.

Thank you for this info @NatJ . If I took the ones that when matured looked the most like the parents with those would it be realistically possible to use them to create a solid breed that looks like Sapphire Gem and with the original traits except day old feather sexing? I understand that blue/lavander solid breeds never hatch out 100% blue/lavander, but do you think if I bred sapphire gems together that I may be able to create them to be a solid breed under a different name? Thank you for your time.

 

[NatJ]

Thank you for this info @NatJ . If I took the ones that when matured looked the most like the parents with those would it be realistically possible to use them to create a solid breed that looks like Sapphire Gem and with the original traits except day old feather sexing? I understand that blue/lavander solid breeds never hatch out 100% blue/lavander, but do you think if I bred sapphire gems together that I may be able to create them to be a solid breed under a different name? Thank you for your time.

Yes, you could probably start with them, and develop them into a blue-colored breed that lays brown eggs. Your Blue breed would always produce offspring that are blue, black, and splash, but that already happens with the other blue breeds (Blue Andalusians, Blue Australorps, etc.)

Blue and Lavender are caused by different genes. Lavender does breed true, blue does not. Breeding two lavender chickens should always give you more lavenders. Breeding two blues will give a mix of black, blue, and splash. (I am referring to the blue or lavender genes here, not all the other genes that go into making the chicken color called Blue or Lavender. So for this purpose, I consider a Porcelain or Isabella chicken to also be "lavender, " and a Blue Laced Red or Blue Wheaten to be "blue.")

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Sapphire gems are sexlinked. So if you breed 2 together, none will be sexlink chicks

 

[NinjaGamer2022]

Yes, you could probably start with them, and develop them into a blue-colored breed that lays brown eggs. Your Blue breed would always produce offspring that are blue, black, and splash, but that already happens with the other blue breeds (Blue Andalusians, Blue Australorps, etc.)

Blue and Lavender are caused by different genes. Lavender does breed true, blue does not. Breeding two lavender chickens should always give you more lavenders. Breeding two blues will give a mix of black, blue, and splash. (I am referring to the blue or lavender genes here, not all the other genes that go into making the chicken color called Blue or Lavender. So for this purpose, I consider a Porcelain or Isabella chicken to also be "lavender, " and a Blue Laced Red or Blue Wheaten to be "blue.")

Is it possible for this idea to have both a lavender and blue gene so you could get both both lavender and some blue offspring? Thank you for all the info you have given me and your time.

 

[NatJ]

Is it possible for this idea to have both a lavender and blue gene so you could get both both lavender and some blue offspring? Thank you for all the info you have given me and your time.

Genetically, it is very possible to have both lavender and blue.

Most people just don't do it.

Here's a thread that has some photos and discussion of chickens with both genes at once, lavender and blue:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...plash-anyone-know-what-they-look-like.625625/

And here's another thread that has some discussion of blue and lavender and chickens with both. It wanders around a bit, with new posts over several years' time, but some parts might be helpful.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/lavender-and-blue-genes-cross-outcome.863346/

(Edited to add a link to a second thread.)

 

[3KillerBs]

Breeding males and females from a sexlinked cross never gives you either the sexlinked cross again or the parent breeds.

You get mutts with varied characteristics, some of which may have the characteristics you want and some of which won't.

I don't know what the parent breeds are. Some of the internet info says that they're half Blue Andalusian, others say that they come from crossing color varieties of Plymouth Rocks. It's possible that both are true with different hatcheries using the same name for different "recipes" for their blue, sexlinked layers.

 

[Mosey2003]

I don't know what the parent breeds are. Some of the internet info says that they're half Blue Andalusian, others say that they come from crossing color varieties of Plymouth Rocks. It's possible that both are true with different hatcheries using the same name for different "recipes" for their blue, sexlinked layers.

Blue Rocks are rare as hen's teeth, I have a hard time believing hatcheries have them in enough numbers to be using them for sexlinks. I know they advertise Blue Rocks but they really aren't, as far as I know. Perhaps they ARE using what they've come up with to resemble Blue Rocks, I don't know how that would affect the sexlinking. I'm pretty sure it's usually Blue Andalusian males over Barred Rock females though. I've considered picking up a cockerel and breeding a few myself to sell but haven't decided if I want to faff with it or not.

OP - do you just want blue colored brown egg layers? I'd be more inclined to just pick something that already exists, like Blue Australorps or even Blue Plymouth Rocks if you can find them (granted the ones from hatcheries aren't really proper, but that's true of most hatchery breeds).

 

[NinjaGamer2022]

Blue Rocks are rare as hen's teeth, I have a hard time believing hatcheries have them in enough numbers to be using them for sexlinks. I know they advertise Blue Rocks but they really aren't, as far as I know. Perhaps they ARE using what they've come up with to resemble Blue Rocks, I don't know how that would affect the sexlinking. I'm pretty sure it's usually Blue Andalusian males over Barred Rock females though. I've considered picking up a cockerel and breeding a few myself to sell but haven't decided if I want to faff with it or not.

OP - do you just want blue colored brown egg layers? I'd be more inclined to just pick something that already exists, like Blue Australorps or even Blue Plymouth Rocks if you can find them (granted the ones from hatcheries aren't really proper, but that's true of most hatchery breeds).

I should look into Blue Rocks. I might get Blue Australops as well. I just love the look and temperment of my Sapphire Gems and was wondering if I could breed them true. I might try and breed more bantam sized Sapphire Gems one day.