If not coccidiosis what could it be? pooing red and goo EVERYDAY, no other symptoms.

[dawg53]

I am sure it works great for you or you wouldn't continue to do it.
lol
I on the other hand think it's just silly and I would not withhold feed.

If your birds ever get gapes or tapes (hopefully not,) keep it in mind

 

[vills]

Hi all
UPDATE: Antibiotics did not resolve unknown underlying issue..


Not sure if I'm meant to start new thread for update...but here goes for now. Otherwise I will try new thread.
Ok so I located sick chicken, she was the one I suspected all along. She was found avoiding the flock and not eating. Poops were now greenly yellow and v watery and v smelly...aka bacterial infection!
Took her to vet, said she was very skinny, told me to go Amprolium just in case but she suspected oviduct issues, perhaps an x ray is required next.
I started treating her with Amprolium again (usual treatment dose), and started colloidal silver for possible infection (i used to take the stuff when I did aid work..it was fantastic for infections). Anyway, after lots of colloidal she pooped out what looked like a Monster thing...see below ....once this came out along with a lot of poop afterwards she started eating and was doing better.

Any ideas what the picture below could be? vet thinks lash egg but I think it looks more like the remnants of necrotic enteritis infection in the cecum ...it was sent to lab for testing but no protozoa was detected. Also COULD WORMS DO THIS to the gut?
No blood inside but it looked like green poo...this sample was sent to lab but showed no protozoa ie coccidiosis (but she had started on Amprolium (second time) for two days.


Next, vet put her on antibiotics (helped with smelly poo now clean smelling ie bacterial infection under control) but her poop, at near end of 5 days of antibiotics (ended yesterday) started showing bits of blood again. Antibiotics hadn't fixed unknown underlying issue.

Meanwhile a new stool test showed NEGATIVE for coccidiosis again and negative for Salmonella...hmmm So I stopped Amprolium again.

Anyway currently she is eating very well, was gaining weight for a while but in last two days has again started losing weight ( not sure what to do next!. I spoke to vet who said stool test might not necessarily be accurate if she was on Amprolium...IS this true?

So still don't know if it could still be Coccidiosis or worms (treated a week ago but suspect not strong enough yet) or oviduct issues or even some sort of obstruction in the gut somewhere. She had some gurgle noises coming from her crop and the vet also noticed she had a bit of swelling on her belly which she no longer has but has pain in the pancreas region of her tummy. No pain or swelling near vent.

So, for the moment she is stable but again pooping red blobs, no smelly diarrhea however, just soft poops with intermittent red mucus bits (See below pic) no more stringy wormy looking things either.
(latest poop pic with red blobs..green was food colouring i think).

I am left with paying for x-ray to find out with no guarantee it will help or re-treat for coccidiosis but more aggressively or WORMS? she is due for next dose of worming but at this stage not sure what to attack first as still clueless what she has wrong with her.
Is it possible to have a twice negative stool test for Coccidiosis and still be coccidiosis?

Any suggestions for next course of action??
I am thinking aggressive treatment now as nothing to lose, she is way better at the moment, but unfortunately poop symptoms reappearing again and though she is now eating a lot, she has began to lose weight and it won't be long before other symptoms reappear (eg not eating, clogged up intestines from inflammation and infection spreading again).

 

[dawg53]

There is something wrong with her internally, more questions than answers and you've practically thrown everything at her including the kitchen sink and seeing the same results.
It might be best to cull her and send her off for necropsy. Then you'll find out exactly what the problem is. You can consult your vet about it if you wish.

 

[vills]

There is something wrong with her internally, more questions than answers and you've practically thrown everything at her including the kitchen sink and seeing the same results.
It might be best to cull her and send her off for necropsy. Then you'll find out exactly what the problem is. You can consult your vet about it if you wish.

It might end that way...at the moment she is very active and vibrant...but those poops...grrr..gave her high dose of oregano concentrated oil and her poops have slowly and finally gone back to normal...but without knowing what the cause is, it might simply be a matter of time before it all returns. Reminds me of when i've had dogs with internal organ failure, they would bounce back only to go down hill again. Infection I can probably treat, but usually if improvement is clinically seen for a small period and then suddenly a down hill turn occurs, this usually signals organ failure to me. I just wish I had known what it was, just case my other girls get it. So far they seem to be immune, except one girl who is now pooping very small poops, like she's clogged up, won't eat much either. Ahhh, so jealous of neighbours chickens, they get neglected, no coop, sleep on trees in freezing cold weather and they are hardy as anything. I wonder at times, if the breed has something to do with it. Mine are hybrids apparently.

 

[vills]

UPDATE:
Thought I'd come back and post final update in case it can help anyone in the future. As I've found it frustrating at times when i've followed a thread and no final outcome is ever posted. So here it is, and hope anyone looking for similar poo issues might find a possible answer other than coccidiosis or worms, as similar as it might seem sometimes it could be a completely different disease, despite symptoms not fitting the criteria, as was in my case.
Anyway, sadly we finally had to put our hen to sleep, as her weird bloody poos with threads continued. She was in good health otherwise, eating, lovely feathers, though did have trouble gaining weight.

We had a professional necropsy conducted to assess cause, after much laboratory analysis which came down to either Marek's disease or Avian Leuckosis, we had to have specimens sent to another lab which came back positive for Avian Leuckosis. She had little evidence of it in her internals, except for cell change, organs had no tumors or swelling of any kind. But it was obviously enough to cause disruption in her digestive system though. Lab results also showed negative for coccidiosis and parasites. She was clean except for the cell changes in some of her organs and even had some of her nerves in her legs showing cell change (which is why they thought maybe Marek's disease)and apparently she had been gaining weight (i fed her very well till the last minute before she went to the lab for a necropsy). Lab technician was surprised she was in such good health despite her poos.
Sometimes, if the hen does well for a while only to deteriorate suddenly again, despite trying everything for bacterial, parasites etc, then it's probably viral (includes most cancers which Leuckosis is a type of cancer caused by a virus)as it is a stealth killer which affects every animal differently. Going by classic disease symptoms sometimes are just not enough. At least I won't have to go crazy trying to disinfect the coop for coccidiosis any longer. As it seems my poor girl got the disease from the place i brought her. I have had to warn the guy who gave me the hen to not give anymore away or breed anymore chickens as it mainly transmitted from mother to chick. The other hens are doing fine but I am sure they are carriers now so will never breed or let them out near other chickens. Hope this info can help someone else.

 

[dawg53]

Thank you for the informative update and I'm sorry you're having this happen. I wish you the best.

 

[rebrascora]

Thanks for the update. Marek's was what I was thinking with the problems reoccurring after treatment each time. I'm not familiar with leucosis but I know it can present very similar to Marek's. So sorry that you are having to deal with this. You certainly cannot reproach yourself for not doing everything within your power for her and we really appreciate you documenting her journey and treatment and sad final diagnosis, so that others can learn from it.
What happened to the other bird that was starting to look a little off? Hopefully that was just a false alarm. As someone who has Marek's in their flock, I know how easy it is to start imagining the worst at the least sign of a bird showing any abnormal behaviour.

 

[Kiki]

Thank you for the update. I'm glad you got an answer.

 

[vills]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts...the other girl is doing really well, though her poops are dark green and greasy most days, she took forever to start laying, but once that was over she's bounced back really well and now is laying healthy eggs and she looks a picture of health (except for the occasional dark green poop). I think the point of lay was a trigger for my hen who died, and now i dread molt season for the same reason..but all i can do is wait and see. I've kept them on a pretty high protein diet with kelp and that seems to be keeping their immune system pretty strong, along with ACV and some garlic. Like you rebrascora I am now on constant alert for any sign of AL virus rearing it's ugly head. and i know stress will do that so it's a double whammy for my paranoia...making sure they don't get stressed too much, along with keeping viral load off their coop and environment. AL and Marek's are indeed cousin diseases...ugly stealth killers. Luck to you too rebrascora, I know what your daily struggle is...waiting to see if it reappears...ahhh.
Wish there was treatment or easier testing for it, other than after the poor chickens die.