If not coccidiosis what could it be? pooing red and goo EVERYDAY, no other symptoms.

[vills]

Hi all
TESTED NEG for coccidiosis and parasites ....yet still continues..


Hope you can help. I've got one of four hens (3 pullet around 18 weeks old and 1.5 year old hen) who has been pooing what seems like intestinal lining with occasional blood for around 3 weeks now. I've treated them all with a sulpha med (2 weeks ago) for suspected coccidiosis and doing so again this week (day 5 of treatment) with Amprolium 200 powder at outbreak dosage. Also treated them for worms about 2 weeks ago also with 14h?L Levamisole product. Though not sure they drank enough of it to make a difference (they had clear poo for one day after treatment and then back to unusual coccidisos looking poo ).

Out of desperation I also had fecal test done last Friday and it showed NEGATIVE for coccidiosis and parasites. But was advised by vet and lab technician to treat for coccidiosis anyway. Waiting for bacterial results tomorrow also.

It is only one hen pooing this way (stringy pink and sometimes brown goo with blood at times). All four hens have exhibited absolutely NO symptoms of being ill since the first bloody poo came out 3 weeks ago. They came to me originally from a free ranging home, where no chicken ever gets sick. Doesn't seem to have affected any other chicken..four weeks and no clues still.

They have been on medicated feed also (just amprolium no antibiotics) for the last 3 weeks. There is very little evidence of blood but still a tonne of bright pink and red intestinal lining. I' find yellowy looking threads in poo everyday also, lots of them, which look like worms and go dark red when they dry up but nothing moving in poo, but I suspect this is only intestinal lining as negative result for parasites. EVERY DAY for 3 weeks there is this strange cocci looking poo.

5 days on amprolium and still no evidence of improving poo issue. Any ideas if it could still be coccidiosis or something else? Worms? defect? Chickens all acting normal. But this has being going on for 3-4 weeks now, every day pink reddish poo (at times light caramel looking poo mixed in there) with what looks like intestine. Someone here at the local pet shop who owns chickens told me if it was coccidiosis they would have had symptoms or be dead by now...hmmm ..And only one chicken affected. I can post pics if it helps, just have to find the pics. Perhaps I did not treat properly for worms?? Has anyone's chickens gone through this kind of situation? ..negative for cocci and parasites on test results but still pooing what looks like intestinal shedding for weeks!Also out of curiosity, can fecal tests be wrong and chicken still have cocci?

appreciate any ideas or clues I'm missing.
Cheers
Vills (from Australia)

 

[dawg53]

No I would fast them for any reason. I think it's just dumb.
Do you refuse/not allow yourself to eat when you are hungry?

Actually, withholding feed for 24 hours works great prior to worming. Worms are starving for nutrients and they are weaker, making the wormer more effective.
You'll especially want to withhold feed when it comes to gapeworms and tapeworms. I've done it for 24 hours against tapeworms and it's very effective.
I know some folks who have withheld feed for 48 hours, and their birds were fine after worming.

Important: If feed is withheld from chickens for 24 hours or more, you should wait another 4 to 5 hours AFTER worming before feeding your chickens. This gives time for the wormer to get in to the blood stream to do its job.
Then when you feed your chickens 4 or 5 hours later, feed them sparingly at first, then gradually increasing their feed as the day goes by, eventually back to normal feeding routine.
The reason you do this is because your birds will be starving and will gorge feed if given free choice feeding. Gorging feed can cause impacted crop and/or impacted gizzard. A little feed at a time is always best.

When I'm doing monthly routine worming and not dealing with tapeworms, I worm my birds first thing in the morning prior to letting them out of the coop.
I feed them 4 hours later using a shallow pan with some layer feed in it. Then later on I let them eat out the feeder. My birds do not free range.

 

[vills]

UPDATE:
Thought I'd come back and post final update in case it can help anyone in the future. As I've found it frustrating at times when i've followed a thread and no final outcome is ever posted. So here it is, and hope anyone looking for similar poo issues might find a possible answer other than coccidiosis or worms, as similar as it might seem sometimes it could be a completely different disease, despite symptoms not fitting the criteria, as was in my case.
Anyway, sadly we finally had to put our hen to sleep, as her weird bloody poos with threads continued. She was in good health otherwise, eating, lovely feathers, though did have trouble gaining weight.

We had a professional necropsy conducted to assess cause, after much laboratory analysis which came down to either Marek's disease or Avian Leuckosis, we had to have specimens sent to another lab which came back positive for Avian Leuckosis. She had little evidence of it in her internals, except for cell change, organs had no tumors or swelling of any kind. But it was obviously enough to cause disruption in her digestive system though. Lab results also showed negative for coccidiosis and parasites. She was clean except for the cell changes in some of her organs and even had some of her nerves in her legs showing cell change (which is why they thought maybe Marek's disease)and apparently she had been gaining weight (i fed her very well till the last minute before she went to the lab for a necropsy). Lab technician was surprised she was in such good health despite her poos.
Sometimes, if the hen does well for a while only to deteriorate suddenly again, despite trying everything for bacterial, parasites etc, then it's probably viral (includes most cancers which Leuckosis is a type of cancer caused by a virus)as it is a stealth killer which affects every animal differently. Going by classic disease symptoms sometimes are just not enough. At least I won't have to go crazy trying to disinfect the coop for coccidiosis any longer. As it seems my poor girl got the disease from the place i brought her. I have had to warn the guy who gave me the hen to not give anymore away or breed anymore chickens as it mainly transmitted from mother to chick. The other hens are doing fine but I am sure they are carriers now so will never breed or let them out near other chickens. Hope this info can help someone else.

 

[Kiki]

spray the poop with hydrogen peroxide - if it foams(not just bubbles) i'd treat for cocci

Cocci the bacteria or coccidia the parasite will make it foam?
This is the first time that I have heard this trick.

 

[dawg53]

I've looked at ALL the photos and all of them are shed intestinal lining EXCEPT KikisGirls post #13 which appears to be a piece of shed intestinal lining with a tapeworm section attached.
@vills you'll need a wormer that contains praziquantel to treat for tapeworms. Levamisol will not treat tapeworms.
Also, threadworms are capillary worms and normally require a microscope to see them. They can also cause shed intestinal lining and blood in feces much like cocci. However they wouldve been seen on the microscopic slide because they are so numerous due to the damage they are causing in your hen. Yet the test was negative for worms, so that eliminates capillary worms, not to mention you treated them with levamisole which kills capillary worms. Obviously there wernt any tapeworm segments in the fecal samples at the time of testing or they wouldve notified you.
Severe tapeworm infections can cause what you're seeing and uncooked fish is known to be a vector for tapeworms.

 

[coach723]

Make sure you follow dosing instructions on your label. I had to look it up as I'm not familiar with that wormer, but 1.5 tablet treats up to 1 kg of body weight which is about 2.2 lbs. So you are going to need a good weight on each bird, and depending on size you may need more than one tablet for each bird (a digital kitchen scale works well). Also says not to feed birds for 24 hours before worming or 3 hours after. I will link to dosing that I found.
Just wanted to add that in my flock droppings like you are seeing are usually caused by worms, so regardless of what the fecal showed, I would be worming. Fecal tests are a really good tool, but they are only as good as the person running them, and all tests can be wrong on occasion. That wormer, dosed correctly, should take care of any parasite they have.
http://www.planetpoultry.com.au/medications/64-avitrol-plus-wormer-tablets-100tabs.html

 

[rebrascora]

I agree those recent pictures and in particular the last one looks like a worm, but not a tapeworm and not any other sort of worm I am familiar with. Could they be eating something which is not digesting properly. Maybe some sort or nematode scratched up from the ground or compost heap.

 

[Kiki]

I just found something I think might be a good read.
I am adding it to my list and just want to share:
http://www.fao.org/docrep/018/x0583e/x0583e.pdf

 

[artsyrobin]

actually its the blood it is reacting to, it bubbles in reaction to bacteria, but it has a more extreme effect with blood.

Here is a good site to pin down what is going on
poultrydvm.com/views/symptoms.php

 

[Kiki]

Is this available to you? It is sold as a horse paste.

IMG_20180322_103043

• Kiki
• Mar 22, 2018