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if you have genetic questions

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by redrooster99, Nov 26, 2013.

  1. redrooster99

    redrooster99 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    georgia
    lol
     
  2. redrooster99

    redrooster99 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    georgia
    and also how do you make buff mottled
     
  3. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    Basically, you have to breed the genes into the bird (assuming that you have a bird you want to work with rather than going out and finding one that is already laced).

    The term spangled has different definitions depending on the breed and the context. For example, there is spangled such as in hamburgs, which is entirely different than spangled in old english, which is different than spangled as in simply having dark spots instead of mottles on feathers, but without the complete hamburg genotype. WIth Old English, spangled is simply a mottled bird on a BBR background. Take a BBR and breed in mottle, then breed back to mottle or siblings together, and you will eventually get the genes lining up correctly. WIht hamburg spangling, you are working wth more, and different genes. Mottle is not involved, but Db, Pg and Ml are. Gold spangled hamburgs have mahogany; silvers do not.
     
  4. redrooster99

    redrooster99 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    georgia
    so i wouldn't get spangled Cochin if i bred a mottled Cochin and bred it to partridge right
     
  5. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

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    I would just be happy if I could get folk to realize Light Sussex are eWh, not eb based. [​IMG]
    Present company excepted.
    Karen
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2013
  6. redrooster99

    redrooster99 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    georgia
    i dont understand
     
  7. redrooster99

    redrooster99 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Jun 14, 2013
    georgia
    how do you make salmon chickens
     
  8. redrooster99

    redrooster99 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    georgia
    using kippenjungle

    Male: Female:
    [​IMG]

    black patterned gold -necked/birchen barred (DF)


    [​IMG]

    black patterned red -necked/birchen


    breed these two marans(were using theme as marans)
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    ( black patterned red -necked/birchen barred ) black copper
    [​IMG] + [​IMG] =
    i think you will get sex link marans ( black copper )

    [​IMG]

    ( black patterned red -necked/birchen barred )

    [​IMG]

    ( black patterned red -necked/birchen )
    your sex link marans



    from http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html?mgt=E:E^R/E^R,B:B/(B)&fgt=E:E^R/E^R,Mh:Mh/Mh
     
  9. redrooster99

    redrooster99 Chillin' With My Peeps

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    georgia
  10. 3riverschick

    3riverschick Poultry Lit Chaser

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    May 19, 2009
    western PA
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    Hi redrooster99,
    A locus is the canvas on which the color of the bird's plumage is painted. They are called the "e locus". There are a bunch of them. eWh , eb, ER, EE and a bunch more. Each different e locus has different ways in which the colors react when they are painted on them. Take these two breeds. Columbian Wyandotte and Light Sussex. Both breeds use the color gene S ( the Silver gene). They also have a gene called the Co (Columbian) gene which resorts (modifies) the dark color over the bird's body. This gene pushes dark coloring ( in this case, Black) to the outskirts of the bird's body, leaving the body itself, white. The dark coloring only appears on the neck, tail and parts of the wing feathers. ( But usually, you can't see the black on the wing feathers when the bird has the wing folded up against its side.

    Ok, so we have a bird carrying a Silver gene and the Columbian color modifying gene. The bird looks like a white bird with a black neck and black tail.
    But "looks" ,and genetics which cause them, can be 2 different things. The birds can look alike, but the colors will perform differently when you mate them.
    Why?

    In this case, it is because the two breeds, Columbian Wyandotte and Light Sussex are "painted" on 2 different "locus" canvases. The Columbian Wyandotte is painted on the eb locus. ( eb/eb S/S Co/Co ). The Light Sussex is painted on the eWh locus. (eWh/eWh S/S Co/Co) . The 2 locus's cause colors and
    gene modifiers perform differently in a breeding program even tho the 2 birds "look" alike.
    ( side note here. Birds have 2 kinds of feathers. The top feathers which we see when we look at them. The "underfluff" which is shorter and helps keep the bird comfortable. in all kinds of weather.)
    The differences are:
    eb locus:
    1. the underfluff on these birds is colored. Usually a grey or slate color. It can vary in depth of color and whether it is on the top end or bottom end of each feather of the underfluff.
    2. The depth of color and placement of the color on the underfluff affects whether black stippling (specks) will appear on white parts of the birds body. So the breeder needs to balance the right amount of color and the right arrangement of color in the underfluff feathers so the birds body will remain pure white in its white areas.
    the eWh locus:
    1. This bird is also carrying the Silver gene and the color rearranging Columbian gene. It has pure white underfluff all the way to the skin. The underfluff needn't ever be colored. Because it is eWh based, this bird doesn't need any color balancing in the underfluff in order to keep the white body parts pure white. Now it is possible for black stippling to show up in the white parts of an eWh based bird like this. But it is because the breeder bred too much black color into the black parts and it "leaked" thru into the white parts... not because the breeder misbalanced any hue in the underfluff.

    Now you can see why it is important that folks understand the Light Sussex is eWh based. It makes a big difference in understanding the genetics which create the color...and in breeding the color correctly in future generations.
    Best,
    Karen
    Waterford english Light Sussex
    in western PA, USA
    Footnote: Here is a URL to a list of genetic formulas for common poultry breeds: http://tinyurl.com/mlhleot .
    Scroll down to the list in Post #6. It is the more updated of the two lists on that page.
    The Chicken Calculator they mention is Kippenjungle that the other posters here have been using to teach you.
    I know the formulas look complicated, but really they are just a string of locus names, gene names,
    and gene modifier names strung out in a line. Once you learn how they perform, you can understand what the
    bird looks like by reading the formula.

     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
    1 person likes this.

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