Illegal Chickens??

[Sonoran Silkies]

Quote:
Ouch! Sonoran Silkies, let's all be nice here, okay? Personal attacks tend to scare people off of forums. You can give your opinion without being hurtful (could have said "I don't like lying myself" rather than "I hope you don't have kids"). Let's keep this a wonderful, informative, inviting forum for all.

My point was that lying sets a bad example for children. The purpose of laws, ordinances, rules and regulations is to create a level playing field for all parties; to protect the rights of all, allowing people to peacefully co-exist in proximity with each other.

Does this always happen? Of course not. But one sets a GOOD example for their children if they actively seeks to change to a law/ordinance/rule/regulation they disagree with. Conversely, deliberately ignoring an inconvenient law or rule teaches ones children that laws and rules are optional--that they do not apply to THEM. Kids extrapolate: if one rule or law is optional, then they all must be.

So perhaps I should have simply said that if you have kids, you are teaching them that they may ignore the law at will--that the law is unimportant and irrelevant to them, that their wishes and desires are more important than having a just society where everyone is equal under the law?

 

[vfem]

Personally I will fib if need be for the well being of my family... When talking about morals, and how one acts to their children... you must watch your tongue. No one is in any position to judge, I highly doubt any of you have never lied or broken a law... knowing or otherwise. So please don't feel the need to try to be call people out, or be rude. LOTS of people here keep chickens against the law because they feel it is better for their family. I don't want to mess my family up with hormones, and risks to their health... so I don't blame ANYONE who wants to keep a chicken.

But with that said, if you think you CAN change the law DO IT! Don't just turn you back on it because someone else doesn't want 'trouble'. How many of your neighbors might want chickens to? You could really make a change... and other people will be really grateful for you changing it so they may have chickens too. So think of it more as doing a favor for the community.

 

[hiker125]

Holy Cow!

There are must be some folks who really need a place to vent their anger and frustration. Sorry that you have so much angst in your life that my little ole post stirred up such feelings....

I didn't realize that a full autobiography was in order, but please keep in mind that not all politics are public office related. I realize that if you don't have much experience with any other kind you may not realize that.

Thanks to those that requested folks play nice. Kind of sad that type of comment is necessary but I guess that is how some folks were raised. It seems to me that how we treat one another is more important than following a law, but we all can have our opinions. Since I am relatively new here, I certainly hope that not all threads get this heated.

Interesting how people make judgements about a person from a few written lines.....

 

[Dora'smom]

I don't understand the lying, either. If the laws are not in favor of having backyard chickens, then work on changing the law. There is currently a groundswell of support for backyard chickens, so there are many instances of laws being changed to add support to any argument for backyard flocks.
If, instead of misrepresenting, fibbing, lying, however you wish to describe it, you work to make the law fit our new model of better, safer food sources. . . well. . . doesn't that make life better for everyone? For you with your illegal backyard flock, for others who also have chicken-ninjas, for people who might decide to go ahead and get those birds since they're now legal, and for the code enforcement people who won't have to respond to illegal chicken situations?
For me the risk of losing my girls would be too much. I checked repeatedly for regulations, code, etc. and then spoke to several officers in the code enforcement office before ever getting my girls.

 

[MaKettle]

*ahem* Back to the topic at hand, as people who are outrageously rude & offensive are not worth the discussion.

I am also one of the people keeping chickens illegally. I knew what I was getting myself in to & am working on changing the laws in my town. I worry ON A DAILY BASIS that somehow my township will find out & it really bothers me that I'm doing something that is against the law. We have 1 really cool neighbor who really wants his own hens & keeps asking us to get a rooster (the answer is an overwhelming no!).

Our laws state that we must have 3 acres (we have just under 1) and that for every acre we have, we are allowed 1 farm animal. So, by the logic we could have 3 cows OR 3 chickens if we lived on those 3 acres. It just doesn't make sense. I am currently working on my plan, though I'm concerned about drawing undue attention to myself!

What works for me: We live in a heavily wooded area so none of my neighbors can see my coop. Our coop is in my garden, close to my house--I keep it as clean as possible & even during the hottest days of the year, there was no smell.

What does not work--no one can describe just how loud chickens are when they are singing that scratchy, honky egg song. When one starts, they all seem to rev up. Thankfully, another neighbor's illegal pit bull (who's kept on a 4ft chain) starts barking too, which seems to cover the sound of the birds.

Good luck to you--try to change your laws if you can! It seems easier that way. If you cant, just know what you're getting yourself in to & what kind of punishments you may face for breaking the law!

 

[Clay Valley Farmer]

My point was that lying sets a bad example for children. The purpose of laws, ordinances, rules and regulations is to create a level playing field for all parties; to protect the rights of all, allowing people to peacefully co-exist in proximity with each other.

We are talking raising children not meat birds. Children tend to free range as they get bigger and the enviroment which they will grow into unfortunatly does not work in ways of harmonic peacefull co-existance.

Teaching recpect for authority and danger is good, but to teach that authority should be feared and never challenged is not (IMHO) otherwise we all end up as a bunch of meat birds plugged in to TVs and stuffed with KFC and pocket pizzas.

Authority is not always right, just and free from corruption. If no one ever challenges authority it just line breeds onto it's self and the bad traits get passed along.​

 

[theFox]

Quote:
We are talking raising children not meat birds. Children tend to free range as they get bigger and the enviroment which they will grow into unfortunatly does not work in ways of harmonic peacefull co-existance.

Teaching recpect for authority and danger is good, but to teach that authority should be feared and never challenged is not (IMHO) otherwise we all end up as a bunch of meat birds plugged in to TVs and stuffed with KFC and pocket pizzas.

Authority is not always right, just and free from corruption. If no one ever challenges authority it just line breeds onto it's self and the bad traits get passed along.

The process allows you to change the laws, use it, or be prepared to lose your birds. The loss of birds is also a frequent topic as a result of flying under the radar.

There is quite a difference between challenging authority and just simply saying oh well I'll just do what I want anyway and it appears that several folks always forget that when they discover they can't do as they wish.

Lets see politically active but not elected public office, campaign staff member, lawyer looking to become a judge, a judge looking for his next bench seat at a higher level, lobbyist, or political consultant.

Every single one of those folks have been known to make plenty of waves on occasion.

 

[Clay Valley Farmer]

There is quite a difference between challenging authority and just simply saying oh well I'll just do what I want anyway and it appears that several folks always forget that when they discover they can't do as they wish.

Agree there are many ways to go about protesting for change, results will vary.

Unfortunatly the "laws" establish the methods in which the law can be changed and those methods almost by design resist change. Kind of simmilar to the political system as elected officials determin the process in which officials are ellected... Often it is not until people test the laws and bring attention to the issues that public opinion will change putting enough pressure on ellected and appointed officials to get their head out of the sand and make a change.

I can't think of a single law that has been changed where someone has not had to step up and openly contradict the law to bring the matter under the microscope for re-evaluation. Granted plain ignorance won't get you far, but take the case of the 1 acer laws where most live on a 1/4 acer, what if 4 people on the street band together to share ownership of the chickens effectivly giving them the required 1 acer. That gives some grounds for a solid arguement to fight from. Amounts to leasing land to graze the chickens in exchange for eggs.​

 

[theFox]

Quote:
Agree there are many ways to go about protesting for change, results will vary.

Unfortunatly the "laws" establish the methods in which the law can be changed and those methods almost by design resist change. Kind of simmilar to the political system as elected officials determin the process in which officials are ellected... Often it is not until people test the laws and bring attention to the issues that public opinion will change putting enough pressure on ellected and appointed officials to get their head out of the sand and make a change.

I can't think of a single law that has been changed where someone has not had to step up and openly contradict the law to bring the matter under the microscope for re-evaluation. Granted plain ignorance won't get you far, but take the case of the 1 acer laws where most live on a 1/4 acer, what if 4 people on the street band together to share ownership of the chickens effectivly giving them the required 1 acer. That gives some grounds for a solid arguement to fight from. Amounts to leasing land to graze the chickens in exchange for eggs.

The chicken laws in a small city three jurisdictions over got changed by a young person and if memory serves it was done before the chickens were obtained, several other small cities around quickly followed suit.

Challenging the law in court in order to get conflicting parts of the law changed is also a perfectly valid means of changing things. However that is not the same as the I'll do as I want types that know or should have known what they are doing is illegal.

Your example of in effect combining 1/4 acre lots also is likely to run afoul of other parts of the zoning laws as well, not to even mention the legal requirement for the lot to be 1 acre or larger. But if four folks are willing to loose their birds, along with any other costs involved in arguing their case in court then by all means have a go at it.

I'd start by trying to change that law first though so they won't get hit by escalating fines when the court finally gets around to deciding the matter.

The surest way of getting the laws changed is to stack the deck on your local governing board, in other words use the ballot box and run your own slate of candidates.

 

[Clay Valley Farmer]

I do see where you are coming from and on some levels I would agree. An individual can get them selves in the plucker by going against the law and to the individual the mess won't be at all worth the risk.

Wouldn’t it be nice if it was as simple as calling up the perspective new mayor or councillors, casting your vote and having them institute your wishes as soon as they take office. Or maybe just sign 50 or a hundred people up on a list and that would be good enough to turn over an old law.

Well, a few votes statistically has nearly no chance of changing an election and political electoral promises are thinner than fethers on a molting turkens neck. If you are the type to get involved as a political activist or lobbyist good on you. However, strong allies to your cause as such an activist will come from the faces of little Jenny who had her 4H project chickens taken by the city inspector, Granny Brown who used to supplement her small pension by raising a few hens. Well at least until the city fined her. Or, maybe allies will be a family exercising “green” principals raising their own food or a new family from another country who traditionally knows no other way of life and got into hot water with the city. The stories of those people will sway public opinion and force government to consider change. Also, those who can show that chickens are being raised in the city without problems despite the laws will work to demonstrate the ineffectiveness of the laws, political offical types don't like egg on their faces (punn intended) and will want to wipe it away along with the laws.

In the context of the law, absolutely if having chickens is against the law then it is wrong. In the big picture of social change it is neither right, nor wrong it is just one of the factors to the change.

Do I respect the person who goes about affecting change through the system? Yes, they are key, but I also respect those that have other roles in the change as I can see how they support the cause. It is unfortunate that some people end up suffering consequences to make change happen, but that is kind of the way the world works.