I can do all that with my Avian vet in a short notice.
NPIP is somewhat a false security....as other threads have mentioned it. It wont protect you from horrible diseases but if you practice common sense, do your own bio security, know where your flock comes from, mutual trust with your friend, a breeder you have gotten to know that they do practice bio security, then we are no different than the NPIP certified breeders are. Either your birds are carriers or not, you just don't know from show to show where your birds may pick up something even with the best biosecurity, it only takes ONE to wipe out your flock or become carriers.
We can get notified with the same information by going on the NPIP website or hearing from show folks and breeders. Word gets around quickly.
If one wants to go NPIP, go for it and if helps you give the peace of mind and give you the security, all is well!
Many of us chose NOT to go NPIP because of the same reason of NAIS, when the government gets "nosey", they can have the power to eradicate your birds within the ten mile vicinity of the infested flock and if your flock was tested clean, too bad, they will put all of your prized birds down. Not a situation I want to fight or want to be in. I'd rather have my birds tested again even monthly drawn to see if that disease have "flown" to my birds by wild birds or walking into a feed store that "infected flock holder" has been into.
I agree with a certain extent with the old timers, the birds survive the mess are the best one you want for your flock because you do not have to deal with vaccinations, VERY strict biosecurity, etc. Look at the zoos even with NPIP in effect, public still come and go and they STILL get something passing around. Sometimes NPIP can be a bit of an overkill.
There are two ways looking at NPIP. If I was to go to a show, I'd be sure to get my birds vet certified or NPIP tested for whatever days amounted to. I do not show year round nor I want to show (lack of experience in showing poultry but plenty for dogs, goats and horses). Every one of my birds I sold were shown by 4Hers and breeders, all came out negative for pullorum and typhoid. I had one bird tested for AV (for Spitzhaubens) tested positive but it is genetic. It can not be passed on to my Welsummers.
My chicks from hatchery are vaccinated for Merck's...is it necessary? Yes and no. I've got wild birds, had lost a bird to a possible Merck's. And that bird WAS vaccinated Merck's so it is not all that fool proof either. The breeder's chicks are NOT vaccinated and they are much more healthier than the hatchery birds. I dont know why, perhaps good breeding, good selection, good care may have contribute to their vigor.
The "uphill" surge for NAIS and NPIP was more popular, mostly from Mad cow disease, avian flu and the horrible disease that WA had that really put the breeders in a tizzy. If you know you got sick birds, you can treat them or cull them. If I know they are not going to make it, dragging out for a least a week, they are immediately put down and dumped in the garbage for trash removal. We are not allowed to burn carcasses or burn anything for that matter except seasoned wood for fireplaces.
There are plenty of threads regarding to this NPIP and NAIS. The big bonus would be this: NPIP would allow you to ship eggs to those "strict" states and they do sell better than non NPIP breeders. If you ask if they are CRD or MRD negative, either you would get the look like you sprouted horns, or they don't do it, or they simply can not afford those tests at additional cost. There is a move to add CRD/MRD negative certification along with typhoid and pullorum negative with the NPIP papers.....so if you want to increase more business, do that.
There are plenty of us that don't have NPIP and you, as the customer, have that choice whether you want to go NPIP or not.
Just common sense and what we can deal with biosecurity. Sure everyone bends the rules but the PO is so lax on it, why in the heck are we paying for services that we didn't have to? If the PO comes back and said, there is NO NPIP papers with it, sure, I will get on the bandwagon and get my birds NPIP certified. Why I dont do it, I do not produce enough to make it worthwhile. I'd be lucky to raise about two doz chicks out of my flock. If I want to sell eating eggs, I can get a hold of my friend across town and we can get our birds certified for egg consumption or hatching eggs for a brief time.
NPIP would not help with shipping sick birds...what if the bird got sick somewhere in the terminal half way to their destination? Most of it is stress. A stressed bird will get sick in some cases so that is why it is OUR job to make the birds as healthy as they can be, get them all treated before the trip and so forth. When they buy my eggs or birds, I would stress them that I am not NPIP but can get them a vet certification of health at their cost with the birds I wanted to sell. Same thing for the eggs. It is our duty as buyers of chicks, birds or eggs, to ASK alot of questions about our birds, where we got them from and so forth. If you get one that just avoids, or side steps or giving you different stories every time, BEWARE!
It would be nice if NPIP can go every five years for re certification but it is not to be.
With the BEST Welsummer breeders, they are underground. They have not introduce any new stock and they do practice bio security like the rest of us. They no longer show birds but most of the birds were from the original breeders like Lowell Barber (non NPIP), Laurie Stevens (non NPIP), Kelly Cratty (non NPIP at that time), John Hall (unknown), Bjorn Netland (non NPIP) and Andre Van Weistande (private NPIP questionable) and Erhard Wiehls (now NPIP). all those are excellent breeders of Welsummers but you won't be buying them because if they don't know you, they wont sell you a bird AND most of them are NOT NPIP. Royce is another one that has some excellent bloodlines but it was so costly that he can not NPIP his birds but would sell eggs only and sell birds or chicks within the state. Laurie has the BEST I've seen and the most original bloodstock coming from Lowell Barber, having some hens came directly from him. Would I buy the eggs or birds from them? Yes you bet I would! If I want the BEST, I will get what I can and practice biosecurity on them or quarantine them just like any other birds. Many of them don't bother to put paperwork or stamped NPIP # on the Horizon boxes. The postal inspector will not police those packages, making sure it is NPIP. If the PO gets the rule from the government and MAKE it enforceable, then they HAVE to do the job but right now, nothing!
I no longer ship chicks or started birds...its a hassle getting the time frame, and those lazy workers "forgot" to put the bird in the truck, sitting there all night and they had to return it back to me for a new box and get another time frame to ship them out. Three times of doing this, I stopped doing it. I had to drive 40 minutes from here to Bloomington PO to ship the birds and it was at my own cost of gas. The Bloomington PO was much more kinder and more than happy to ship birds and they do it quickly as they can than my own PO. Getting the run around from the PO clerks here in town was ridiculous that I had to contact my postal inspecter friend and he told me just mention my name and they better hop to it. Well one day I was getting one bird in, (my last one), the clerk fussed and refused. So I mentioned his name and boy, DID they ever MOVED! So fast, that they got the bird out the door just before the truck left for Peoria to fly out of state. Now talk about results LOL! He is the nicest guy I've met for a friend but he can be downright NASTY and HARSH to the workers if they don't do their job effectively and punctually. I certainly do not want to work for hiim LOL! I was having problems with the biosecurity and shipping the boxes out, he made a few calls and boy, I haven't had any problems to this day. When they SEE me coming in, they straightened up their acts. I feel sorry for those customers before and after me, getting the shafts while I got royal treatments. So after this bird, I decided its too much of a hassle, easier to ship eggs and chicks and not having so much run arounds. Nope, it had nothing to do with NPIP either, just plain laziness on their part or lack of knowledge of what can be shipped out.
I hope I did clarify my reasons why I decided not to go NPIP as of now. In the future, maybe but doubtful because of the number restrictions I have on the flock and it is not to make money either.
Affordablility, number restriction, bio security issues being an overkill in some cases (that would be great for Mythbusters for the tires on our cars), government getting too involved/policing every move you make, possible eradication of your birds from nearby infected farms, and overblown media stores they put out for mad cow diseases, avian or bird flu, etc. Heck we got bird flu in Canada and I am not worried about it. If I worry about every little thing, I sure ain't going to survive on keeping track on every little thing I do on the birds. Common sense prevails most of it as bio securit-ed as the BEST you can!
Even vets don't practice good bio security either. If he comes to your farm with rubber boots, wash it down with water sometimes bleach included, he still will pass it on. We had vet courses on bio security and boy, it was eye opening on things we didn't know or things we knew but it was not "what it is" type of things. Might just live in a very sterile, bubbled world if we are to worry about every little thing in biosecurity issues. Cotton swabs everywhere even on our hands! Like CRD, I think, can NOT be killed by bleach........scarey, isn't it! Certain strains can either make or break you and your birds. Handwashing and bootwashing would not hurt but it is not going to make it sterile from one place to another. Remember those dipping pans we had to use for visiting cattle and hog farms, well, it was not all that effective against ALL diseases. Some are airborn and some are shedded by your clothes even your skin.
Better stop before I ramble on too much!
NPIP is somewhat a false security....as other threads have mentioned it. It wont protect you from horrible diseases but if you practice common sense, do your own bio security, know where your flock comes from, mutual trust with your friend, a breeder you have gotten to know that they do practice bio security, then we are no different than the NPIP certified breeders are. Either your birds are carriers or not, you just don't know from show to show where your birds may pick up something even with the best biosecurity, it only takes ONE to wipe out your flock or become carriers.
We can get notified with the same information by going on the NPIP website or hearing from show folks and breeders. Word gets around quickly.
If one wants to go NPIP, go for it and if helps you give the peace of mind and give you the security, all is well!
Many of us chose NOT to go NPIP because of the same reason of NAIS, when the government gets "nosey", they can have the power to eradicate your birds within the ten mile vicinity of the infested flock and if your flock was tested clean, too bad, they will put all of your prized birds down. Not a situation I want to fight or want to be in. I'd rather have my birds tested again even monthly drawn to see if that disease have "flown" to my birds by wild birds or walking into a feed store that "infected flock holder" has been into.
I agree with a certain extent with the old timers, the birds survive the mess are the best one you want for your flock because you do not have to deal with vaccinations, VERY strict biosecurity, etc. Look at the zoos even with NPIP in effect, public still come and go and they STILL get something passing around. Sometimes NPIP can be a bit of an overkill.
There are two ways looking at NPIP. If I was to go to a show, I'd be sure to get my birds vet certified or NPIP tested for whatever days amounted to. I do not show year round nor I want to show (lack of experience in showing poultry but plenty for dogs, goats and horses). Every one of my birds I sold were shown by 4Hers and breeders, all came out negative for pullorum and typhoid. I had one bird tested for AV (for Spitzhaubens) tested positive but it is genetic. It can not be passed on to my Welsummers.
My chicks from hatchery are vaccinated for Merck's...is it necessary? Yes and no. I've got wild birds, had lost a bird to a possible Merck's. And that bird WAS vaccinated Merck's so it is not all that fool proof either. The breeder's chicks are NOT vaccinated and they are much more healthier than the hatchery birds. I dont know why, perhaps good breeding, good selection, good care may have contribute to their vigor.
The "uphill" surge for NAIS and NPIP was more popular, mostly from Mad cow disease, avian flu and the horrible disease that WA had that really put the breeders in a tizzy. If you know you got sick birds, you can treat them or cull them. If I know they are not going to make it, dragging out for a least a week, they are immediately put down and dumped in the garbage for trash removal. We are not allowed to burn carcasses or burn anything for that matter except seasoned wood for fireplaces.
There are plenty of threads regarding to this NPIP and NAIS. The big bonus would be this: NPIP would allow you to ship eggs to those "strict" states and they do sell better than non NPIP breeders. If you ask if they are CRD or MRD negative, either you would get the look like you sprouted horns, or they don't do it, or they simply can not afford those tests at additional cost. There is a move to add CRD/MRD negative certification along with typhoid and pullorum negative with the NPIP papers.....so if you want to increase more business, do that.
There are plenty of us that don't have NPIP and you, as the customer, have that choice whether you want to go NPIP or not.
Just common sense and what we can deal with biosecurity. Sure everyone bends the rules but the PO is so lax on it, why in the heck are we paying for services that we didn't have to? If the PO comes back and said, there is NO NPIP papers with it, sure, I will get on the bandwagon and get my birds NPIP certified. Why I dont do it, I do not produce enough to make it worthwhile. I'd be lucky to raise about two doz chicks out of my flock. If I want to sell eating eggs, I can get a hold of my friend across town and we can get our birds certified for egg consumption or hatching eggs for a brief time.
NPIP would not help with shipping sick birds...what if the bird got sick somewhere in the terminal half way to their destination? Most of it is stress. A stressed bird will get sick in some cases so that is why it is OUR job to make the birds as healthy as they can be, get them all treated before the trip and so forth. When they buy my eggs or birds, I would stress them that I am not NPIP but can get them a vet certification of health at their cost with the birds I wanted to sell. Same thing for the eggs. It is our duty as buyers of chicks, birds or eggs, to ASK alot of questions about our birds, where we got them from and so forth. If you get one that just avoids, or side steps or giving you different stories every time, BEWARE!
It would be nice if NPIP can go every five years for re certification but it is not to be.
With the BEST Welsummer breeders, they are underground. They have not introduce any new stock and they do practice bio security like the rest of us. They no longer show birds but most of the birds were from the original breeders like Lowell Barber (non NPIP), Laurie Stevens (non NPIP), Kelly Cratty (non NPIP at that time), John Hall (unknown), Bjorn Netland (non NPIP) and Andre Van Weistande (private NPIP questionable) and Erhard Wiehls (now NPIP). all those are excellent breeders of Welsummers but you won't be buying them because if they don't know you, they wont sell you a bird AND most of them are NOT NPIP. Royce is another one that has some excellent bloodlines but it was so costly that he can not NPIP his birds but would sell eggs only and sell birds or chicks within the state. Laurie has the BEST I've seen and the most original bloodstock coming from Lowell Barber, having some hens came directly from him. Would I buy the eggs or birds from them? Yes you bet I would! If I want the BEST, I will get what I can and practice biosecurity on them or quarantine them just like any other birds. Many of them don't bother to put paperwork or stamped NPIP # on the Horizon boxes. The postal inspector will not police those packages, making sure it is NPIP. If the PO gets the rule from the government and MAKE it enforceable, then they HAVE to do the job but right now, nothing!
I no longer ship chicks or started birds...its a hassle getting the time frame, and those lazy workers "forgot" to put the bird in the truck, sitting there all night and they had to return it back to me for a new box and get another time frame to ship them out. Three times of doing this, I stopped doing it. I had to drive 40 minutes from here to Bloomington PO to ship the birds and it was at my own cost of gas. The Bloomington PO was much more kinder and more than happy to ship birds and they do it quickly as they can than my own PO. Getting the run around from the PO clerks here in town was ridiculous that I had to contact my postal inspecter friend and he told me just mention my name and they better hop to it. Well one day I was getting one bird in, (my last one), the clerk fussed and refused. So I mentioned his name and boy, DID they ever MOVED! So fast, that they got the bird out the door just before the truck left for Peoria to fly out of state. Now talk about results LOL! He is the nicest guy I've met for a friend but he can be downright NASTY and HARSH to the workers if they don't do their job effectively and punctually. I certainly do not want to work for hiim LOL! I was having problems with the biosecurity and shipping the boxes out, he made a few calls and boy, I haven't had any problems to this day. When they SEE me coming in, they straightened up their acts. I feel sorry for those customers before and after me, getting the shafts while I got royal treatments. So after this bird, I decided its too much of a hassle, easier to ship eggs and chicks and not having so much run arounds. Nope, it had nothing to do with NPIP either, just plain laziness on their part or lack of knowledge of what can be shipped out.
I hope I did clarify my reasons why I decided not to go NPIP as of now. In the future, maybe but doubtful because of the number restrictions I have on the flock and it is not to make money either.
Affordablility, number restriction, bio security issues being an overkill in some cases (that would be great for Mythbusters for the tires on our cars), government getting too involved/policing every move you make, possible eradication of your birds from nearby infected farms, and overblown media stores they put out for mad cow diseases, avian or bird flu, etc. Heck we got bird flu in Canada and I am not worried about it. If I worry about every little thing, I sure ain't going to survive on keeping track on every little thing I do on the birds. Common sense prevails most of it as bio securit-ed as the BEST you can!
Even vets don't practice good bio security either. If he comes to your farm with rubber boots, wash it down with water sometimes bleach included, he still will pass it on. We had vet courses on bio security and boy, it was eye opening on things we didn't know or things we knew but it was not "what it is" type of things. Might just live in a very sterile, bubbled world if we are to worry about every little thing in biosecurity issues. Cotton swabs everywhere even on our hands! Like CRD, I think, can NOT be killed by bleach........scarey, isn't it! Certain strains can either make or break you and your birds. Handwashing and bootwashing would not hurt but it is not going to make it sterile from one place to another. Remember those dipping pans we had to use for visiting cattle and hog farms, well, it was not all that effective against ALL diseases. Some are airborn and some are shedded by your clothes even your skin.
Better stop before I ramble on too much!
