I'm losing chickens one by one

[threehorses]

I'm watching this and I, too, have to wonder about mycotoxins particularly with hay. To me it just doesn't seem to be as drying or absorbant as the compressed pine shavings do. I so totally agree with dlhunicorn on not using it as a bedding.

And I'm glad to hear it's not MG or MS. What a great piece of mind!

That's really good news on their overall appearances. While you wait for the results, I think I'd adjust the bedding, and definitely change the feeding situation so that they don't feed on the ground.

By the way, if you worm, and it's not a heavy infestation, you have your choice of either wazine with a follow up of a more broad spectrum and larvae killing wormer... or just start out with the stronger wormers. Ivermectin kills larva and adults, and fenbendazole (safeguard paste for cattle or horses) will also kill encysted and larvael rounds. Both can be done as a paste (bb sized bit in the beak) if you buy horse strength, ivermectin can also be done orally using the 1% injectable, and the cattle pour-on can be given in drops on naked skin on their body (1-6 drops depending on the size of the bird).

You will want to worm all birds.

 

[mafaller]

My husband is have a very hard time swallowing the cost difference between straw and pine shavings. He keeps saying that his grandparents never lost a bird and they were kept in a tiny pen on a dirt floort that was never cleaned. I think the shavings would be worth trying because of the cost of raising up birds that keep dying.

They have a hanging feeder, but I usually drop two piles. One for my lame-ish hen and one just in case my big roosters don't let the smaller hens get a turn. I don't put them on wet ground or near where they could get wet, but in their past coop I couldn't swear that they never had food that had been on a damp area.

I'll definitely take your advice Nathalie and get on worming them all. Just hoping to get some results in so I know what all I'm going to have to do. Fingers cross that they find SOMETHING.

I'll let you guys know.

Thanks
Michelle

 

[dlhunicorn]

There can be advantages to that (as opposed to a brooder system and then introducing them to outside environment at a later age (see the ATTRA site for that and their cocci page)

As to the difference in cost:
I live in Holland where it is very damp and wet most of the time.
It is therefore incredibly stupid to try and keep on the ground here> I have raised floors with sidewalk pavement underneath to assist in cleaning)
What I do (and keep in mind I have silkies which do not roost) is use low sided cardboard boxes that I get from the grocery store (oranges and apples etc. are shipped/displayed in them > the store just throws them away so I get for free!)
I line those with newspaper and fill with about two inches of sand (playsand or bird sand) and then I put a thin layer of shavings on top of that. I clean the shavings out when necessary > the box with sand will last me anywhere between two and three months dependent on conditions. I just throw away the box (flatten and take to the recycle point) after dumping the contents in my compost bin and replace with a new one when the box gets damp. This saves me an incredible amount of money on shavings. You get the idea > cardboard boxes come in all sizes .
You could use sand on the floor (deep layer coarse sand) and rake out daily...many do that here (all have cement floors to aid in disinfection/cleaning)

 

[threehorses]

I agree with the sand idea. Sand additionally dries out most things so that they're less likely to be infective (it doesn't sterilize but it does help), it definitely is a better ground for the purpose of warding off coccidiosis and worms, and as Diana said you just rake it out mostly. It can be left for a good while. Honestly I leave mine as it's so dry it doesn't require replacement. But it's way more hygienic than dirt and it'll make your coops smell better as well.

We do that here as well because of humidity and because it's just healthier than usual dirt.

 

[mafaller]

Wow, maybe that solves the mystery as to why my husband's grandmother raised chickens on a "dirt" floor with no bedding and never lost one. The property we are on is all sand. You can dump the chickens water over and it immediately sinks into the ground, barely even puddles. Maybe I should just rake the straw out and go with what's there? Is there special sand I should buy to cover this sand with or just use it? Would getting the straw out help things, hypothetically?

Thanks again, it's always nice to get fresh perspective and new ideas, while I await the test results.

Michelle

 

[mafaller]

Wow, maybe that solves the mystery as to why my husband's grandmother raised chickens on a "dirt" floor with no bedding and never lost one. The property we are on is all sand. You can dump the chickens water over and it immediately sinks into the ground, barely even puddles. Maybe I should just rake the straw out and go with what's there? Is there special sand I should buy to cover this sand with or just use it? Would getting the straw out help things, hypothetically?

Thanks again, it's always nice to get fresh perspective and new ideas, while I await the test results.

Michelle

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
That could well be! We have clay soil here, so we have to improve it. Sand is still better even than regular top soil. So yes - I'd try it! If you add sand, you could use just a construction type sand (if you have lots of area to cover - a clay sand mixture is really mostly sand and very very porous), or 'play sand' from the hardware store. River sand would be too expensive. But some sort of sand that's not incredibly find would help.

Sandy soil is awesome for poultry health if you're lucky enough to have it naturally! I sure wish we did.

I personally think that removing the hay could help tremendously. I would add more sand to give more of a layer there to keep things easily raked and less compacted.

Now - we wait for really great test results!

 

[dlhunicorn]

The sand preferred here in our very damp climate is coarse sand... (play sand is generally too fine and retains more moisture whereas the coarse sand lets it through and ïs in general drier (always preferably over anything damp)

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
The play sand here in the states, from where the person we're trying to help is writing, is not super fine and is fine for runs. Certainly better than hay in any case.

Of course that's why I provided alternatives, ones that I personally have used as I've used everything I've recommended with success with my own flocks here where it's quite humid (usually 100% humidity), hot, and quite apt to being mildew-friendly.

In any case, Maraller seems on the proverbial ball, and quite capable of looking at the different sands and deciding for herself.

I'm sure she'll do great!

 

[mafaller]

Thanks all. I'm still awaiting results and will post when I get them. I appreciate all the advice, especially Nathalie. You've been there since the beginning and our climates seem very similar.

Here's to hoping for no more losses and great test results.