I'm losing chickens one by one

[threehorses]

Quote:
You're very welcome. Our climates are similar, but I sure do wish I had your soil! I have been trying to improve mine over the years, and it's better than most as I have some old farm land and I don't remove lawn clippings or leaves. But 2 inches down it's still clay. /sigh

 

[Vermontmaple]

My heart aches for you. I'm sorry you even have to go through this!
Amy

 

[mafaller]

OK Nathalie and anyone else that is genius level on chickens. haha I have path reports, but haven't been able to sink up with the doc to go over them. I lost another hen today. After culling my roosters and sacrificing the two to the lab, and losing two more of the mystery illness, I'm down to 5 hens.

Started with 27, what a waste of time, energy, money, and lives.

I'll type out the histopathology in case anyone understands what it's saying.

The liver was marked and diffuse vacuolar changes throughout, with mild periportal lymphoid infiltrates, and the spleen is congested with moderate hyperplasia of lymphoid follicles.
Hyperplasia of submucosal intestinal lymphoid follicles is also marked, and the kidneys depict mild and multifocal aggregates of lymphoid cells in the interstitum.
In the heart there are a few scattered infiltrates of lymphoid cells between cardia myofibers and the lungs are diffusely congested.

NDiagnoses and comments:
The main lesions were the hepatocellular vacuolar changes which were likely representative of hepatic lipidosis.
Although the specific cause of the lipidosis could not be determined in this case, in chickens of this age metabolic and nutritional influences should be included in the differentials.

The lymphoid hyperplasia in multiple locations was presumed to be reactive (and likely protective) to ongoing pathogenic/parsitic insults over a period of time.

Ok, not the only other positive found was in the hen she was positive for ascaridia galli 1+

The necropsy report said that they found ascarids and all other testing was negative. He said the ascarids were very minor and shouldn't have been a real health risk in the numbers he found them???

If anyone understands this stuff. Please any ideas on cause, treatment, clean up for future flocks???

Thanks
Michelle

 

[Brindlebtch]

Fatty livers and worms?

 

[mafaller]

Yep, round worms which the doc said weren't of a high load and fatty liver disease which I would assume is what killed them. They were on starter grower with some occasional bread or garden trimmings. The roosters were twice the size of the hens and none of them died. So confused??? I can't seem to find any info on whether worms can cause a chain of events that leads to fatty liver????

 

[Jenski]

I am seeing more reports of backyard chicken loss from hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver) when folks are giving their birds lots of inappropriate, high-fat treats, but you might check out this blurb from the Merck Vet Manual:

http://www.vetmanual.org/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/202400.htm

It suggests that a high-energy diet to confined birds can also have the same results. I don't recall which type of feed you were providing, but if the protein content is off this might be the problem. Do the birds range at all?

Anyhow, hope that info helps. So sorry for your losses. Thanks for sharing your experiences and information with us, as it will surely benefit others. Please keep us posted on how things turn out.

 

[mafaller]

Jenski,

Thanks alot for making me feel like I'm not bugging you guys with this stuff. I read the article. I don't "think" I qualify. I will occassionally take a couple heals out to the group and scatter it around. They are on a starter grower feed 18% crude protein. They will be 20 weeks old on the 20th and we had planned to start giving them layer feed when we saw the first egg. If any of them live? I guess we're going to have to start over. Next time we will buy vaccinated chicks from Murray McMurray and at least feel confident that we did what we could to get "good stock". Any suggestions on treatment of the worms?? Any preparations I could do to help the next group to come in healthy?

Thanks
Michelle

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
There was fatty liver caused possibly by age, diet, metabolism. If you're feeding a lot of corn, if the birds are heavy, if their keels aren't readily felt (though not sharp) I'd reduce the fat in their feed - particularly if you're feeding extra corn.

The lymphoid hyperplasia in multiple locations is evidence of immune response. In other words, it's infiltration of white blood cells into those organs. It's the second phase of immune response. Pathogenic or parasitic insults are said to be "ongoing" meaning that they had some long term infection (bacteria/viral/fungal) and/or parasites (roundworms). Pathogenic is bacterial/fungal/viral, parasitic would be 'worm' type parasites. In other words, the birds had a long time infection and the white blood cells in those major organs seem to indicate it's been a relative while (not just a couple of days in other words).

The small number of roundworms found didn't seem to be the cause of this, but could be indicative of flock infestation (worming with wazine and then following up with a larvae killing broad spectrum would be wise). There was lung congestion, and that combined with the suggestion of a long term possible infection (or infestation - remember rounds go through a larval stage in the lungs) make me wonder about respiratory issues.

Now there are liver changes that take place during mycotoxins, including hepatocellular hyperplasia, and fatty liver, but they seem to also involve things like (sometimes) kidney enlargement and liver necrosis or changes, more so than are noted on this necropsy.

If it were Marek's (or even LL) they'd have noted that as a possibility I'm pretty sure.

It just looks like something infectious, inflammatory, at least a side-dish of parasites. THen again parasites can inflame the intestines and cause an inflammatory response.


I'd love to know what your vet has to say.

Added: I wrote about the corn before you clarified what their diet was; that shouldn't be overly fatty. I suspect the fatty liver was due to somerthing other than just diet - again going back to age, metabolism, other external factors or influences.

 

[mafaller]

Thanks Nathalie. Alright, now the tough question....since things aren't really clear about what is exactly causing this but I'm still losing birds about every 10 days would it be more humane to end it for these last 5 hens? The fatty liver makes me wonder if they aren't suffering a little everyday and then just succombing. They are vigorous and healthy appearing until they just go down fast. Still not noticing any mucous dripping, running, no coughs as far as I can tell. Should I try worming and then wait and see? Your advice is readily welcome although I know the choice is mine.

I was pretty disapointed to not have a more definitive AHA moment and KNOW what was going on. Even the fatty liver makes me wonder if that's the cause because the vet who performed the necropsy noted Both birds had excessive body cavity fat. The heart, trachea, and lungs were unremarkable. All other internal organs and structures appeared grossly normal. Wouldn't he have noticed if there was gross abnormality or fatting of the liver?????

Thanks
Michelle

 

[dlhunicorn]

http://partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/avian-atlas/search/lesion/385
"... Aflatoxicosis mimics infectious bursal disease, fatty liver syndrome, ...."